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Creating a digital health startup in Germany? – with Simon Bolz and Uwe Horstmann | PAP#030

Creating a digital health startup in Germany? – with Simon Bolz and Uwe Horstmann | PAP#030

Welcome to this new episode of the
Project A podcast. First time we are recording it on video and also one of
the first times that we have two guests: Uwe and Simon. Let me first introduce
Simon or maybe you can introduce yourself you’re the founder of Klara
right? Yeah i’m one of the two founders of Klara. Klara is a messaging
platform for medical practices to communicate with their patients and
we’re building a communication network in the US predominantly right now. And Uwe is our General Partner at Project A I think most people know you who are
listening to this podcast but maybe you can also introduce yourself My name is Uwe I’ve been with Project A since the very beginning of the firm and
helped start it and I’m very interested in all things health care and and that’s
that’s why we sit here and Klara is one of our superstar investments in that
space so and I have the great pleasure of working with both founders Simon and
Simon which is a source of course for endless jokes that the Simon’s are
running this this company but yes it’s a super important investment for us and
the healthcare space is a very fascinating one Absolutely well we have
also been writing or you personally have been writing a white paper on digital
health, we had the focus on Germany how things are going on there and that’s
also something we’re going to be talking in this episode. My name is Danijel I’m
the host and I’m very delighted having you here. Hi Danijel. We’re going to
be talking about is the digital health market in Germany compared to the US.
we’re going to be talking also about Klara your venture our venture that has
gotten very strong investments also from the US and we also would like to have a
look on the future what’s going to be happening with Klara and
what do you think where is digital health going to be in, I don’t know five
years ten years in Germany and in the US but what I really love to start talking
about in the beginning is just so that people can really know about the people
talking maybe something about you personal Simon how does it come that you
found it Klara. Why? Well me and Simon we got together I
have a little bit more entrepreneurial background started a couple of
businesses and worked a lot in digital marketing and product development before
that and the the previous two or three years before founding I was heavily
involved in health care projects helping hospitals and medical practices to
digitize and also helping one of the or the largest Medical Publishing Group in
Germany to to digitize and build a company for them as well so I was
heavily involved in digital product development and marketing and Simon came
from the more academic side he did his PhD in Healthcare Economics
worked for one of the top consulting companies for five years his PhD on the
side and specialized in health care in the healthcare industry. He comes from a
huge family full of doctors so basically got the health care topics into his
cradle and was topics with every dinner or lunch with his parents and family I
think he’s the only one out of all the siblings and family who’s who’s gone to
the dark side and not become a doctor okay now kind of bouncing back to the
field my dad is also a doctor my wife is a doctor so I’m also naturally inclined
to the field but we both are convinced that health care is at a tipping point
things are highly inefficient the number of cases in healthcare medical cases is
rapidly increasing and at an exponential rate there are more people on the planet
there’s also technological progress which means we can now treat diseases
which we couldn’t have even diagnosed five years ago so naturally that curve
is going up like crazy but the number of doctors
are staying stagnant and there’s a gap this gap can only be bridged by
technology so this is where we come in. Before we’re going to talk deeply about
that how does it come up proposed are sites that you have found such a great
investor like Project A or did Uwe found you? Find, not found.
Did Uwe find you? Yes. We were in contact actually so we started with a
slightly different business model in 2013/14 and we were already in contact
there and Project A passed on our first seed round. But then we did the magic
and very successful pivot into kind of from a B2C telemedicine product we were
just too early we pivoted the product with our doctors and with our customers
into a B2B2C messaging platform which we are today. Once we hit
traction there and things were starting to work and we got in contact again and
pretty fast got to the US seed round with with Project A and Lerer Hippeau in New York. And not only did you change the business model but you also shifted markets. so that that’s one of the I think most fascinating aspects about Klara is that
when we talk to people here in Germany about where the healthcare market is
that healthcare market is at how we think about technology and innovation
everybody knows the Klara example because Klara is the personification if
you will of the differences in the healthcare market. Because they used to
be in Germany doing something that I think would have been super helpful I would have
used this app a lot it was about skin cancer detection or all kinds of skin
problems and you know getting a quick doctor feedback on something the cameras
are really good enough to be able to do that and it basically was not really
possible to fully scale in the German Market. So they pivoted and Germany
arguably lost one of its you know brightest entrepreneurial teams in
digital healthcare and they moved to the US so it’s a it’s a super interesting
example and it tells us of course a story about a
the hugely successful company and it’s gonna you know revolutionize an
important market but it’s also tells us a story about how we should think about
attracting intrapreneurial talent how we should go about designing incentives in
a medical healthcare system in Germany so I think it’s very interesting and
that’s also of course why we passed we have the ultimate wisdom of course a
fully understanding that there will be a pivot coming which will then gladly fund
no not series of course and the US investors recognize quite early that
Klara is something they have to go into maybe you can you can tell us about the
investors FirstMark Capital for example also invested in you one year after we
did them just to explain invested also in Pinterest and Shopify in Airbnb right
so and now Klara as well so what do you think what convinced them? So maybe first we did the second seed round I called it and with Lerer and Project A in the lead and Lerer is probably the most prominent seed fund in
in New York City so they invested in Casper, BuzzFeed, Venmo, Allbirds and
a lot of really cool companies and they really believed in our vision and the
message messaging format is coming to healthcare and will disrupt healthcare
because it makes so much sense people don’t want to talk on the phone anymore
and we had a very good approach we had good traction on the product but one of
their conditions was to move the company fully into the US. We had already moved
the business into the US but not the headquarters and operations have
everything so we did that flip and and and basically became a fully US company
my co-founder Simon he moved over three and a half years ago fully and kind of
set up shop in in New York and then we did our 11.5 million A round now with with First Mark and also Project A
participating in Laurel Hippeaul and with First Mark on boards of obviously great
I mean they are also one of the most prominent A investors especially on the
on the East Coast and with unleash Johnny it’s now on our board for the
first time we have a real proper board with Uwe and and Amiche and and I’ve
got good you know value-adding board meetings and and Amiche has a deep
experience in in SAS so he was one of the first investors in Shopify which was
pretty successful and he is was the first invest in Envision and is also on
the board is very close to Clark Walberg the CEO of Envision who also joined the
round together with with two cofounders of Flatiron Health so we have pretty
good SAS and also healthcare know-how sitting around the table so yeah. Flatiron Health, maybe two for European listeners where there’s not as
presence probably the most successful digital health care company exit to rush
I think for so Zack and Nat they sold the company I think beginning of this
year for two billion after six and a half years of company it’s a it’s a big
data analytics company in oncology and yeah Roche both bought them and they
really changed the way how clinical trials are developed and researched so
things are happening in the US and you are already nearly completely working in
the US things not happening in Germany but still we as Project A today started to
engage in Germany in the digital health space you’re one of three investments
we’re also planning to have some more investments why don’t we just focus on
the US. like Klara did because this is seems to be the most successful outcome
so I think the German market per se what a German healthcare system per se is a
good health care system so don’t get me wrong right we could easily go on and
bash and bash about how it’s not open to innovation but a system itself is a good
system I think I at least I’m happy about the quality of care I
get in general which is not which is not easy to do so but still I mean we don’t
have those Startups. No we don’t we don’t we don’t right so you know it would be yes we we
are definitely looking abroad you know Kry, another very important investment also
didn’t start in Germany and now coming to Germany we haven’t given up hope just
yet you know sometimes you feel tempted say it is an awesome idea why don’t you
leave Germany move to the US and start you and continue a business there and
then we might invest and we are discussing this with a lot of
entrepreneurs that we meet in the healthcare field but we haven’t given up
hope completely just yet so just recently we’ve had discussions and we’ve
of course you know for 10 years for 15 years we’ve been told that next year is
the year and everything’s gonna change but I guess in venture you’re an eternal
optimist so what for example Gottfried Ludovic has told us who’s been a guest
at two of our events you know the new digital digitalization chief of the
health ministry you know you can really see that people at least get it and
people want to do something now we’ll see how successful everything goes but I
am still cautiously optimistic and what we’re trying to do is yes we of course
look at other countries and do investments there because we need to be
successful but also we want to be open enough and maybe even contribute a tiny
tiny bit to the discussion right I mean we don’t have the solution to everything
but hopefully through things like this or in conferences events white papers
whatever we can at least somehow contribute to the dialogue so a little
bit of a little bit of sense of responsibility still is is in us I guess. Great but isn’t it also a bit frustrating when companies and founders
like Simon with Klara are moving to the US and it should be super frustrating I
mean I think politics should be like where did we go wrong you know everybody
in the health care system actually you know the politicians the doctors and
their associations the payers so can Krankenkass and all that everybody should be
like okay where did we go wrong for us it’s not that much of a problem because
we actually now are invested in a us-based company with fantastic
co-investors a phenomenal team and we all benefit from that regardless but for
the German system I think it should be you know this should be a wake-up call
to see that a German team is pulling this off in the United States. What happened in the US then it’s working or seems to work out there I mean the
US also has huge problems in the health care system but but still what
what what worked out there? Yeah it’s it’s an interesting question so
originally the one of the reasons why we moved over I mean we we hit a lot of
walls here in Germany to be frank and we had a couple of how do you
call it cease and desist letters from some doctor association model and a week
before the funding round on the table which which was pretty nerve-wracking
but we kept on pushing forward because the the product worked and back then
when we were in teledermatology or telemedicine we could actually prove
scientifically we had a study with the with the University Clinic in Munich and
made sure that we have like all the academia on our side and and some pretty
prominent professors on our board of advisers and and the product worked but
we were not able to kind of build the product to its end because in the end at
the end of the diagnosis there should also be a prescription for example and
that was illegal in Germany but it worked in the US and this was basically
why we were able to give a better product promise in the US where people
were were were understanding oh okay I paid thirty forty dollars and I do
actually get something in return and not just a I don’t know worked along with
always the sentence I don’t know if this is really true but you have to go to
your doctor even though it’s scientifically proven that we could be
able that we are able to actually diagnose in telemedicine based on a
picture in dermatology but anyway so this is basically the the trigger why we
also went over there but there are other reasons why I believe the the
u.s. healthcare market is much more interesting for startups first of all
it’s much more broken to be honest and so the costs are much higher we’re
talking about four trillion dollars. 18% 18% of the u.s. GDP is spent on health care
only yearly yeah in a year so that’s crazy
what does a birth cost I think if you give birth in the u.s. easily like .
Yeah in the five digits yeah for sure in the mid and high five digit and and I
mean I personally have friends who had were suffering of pancreatitis for
example one friend of mine and he had he had really bad issues and he didn’t go
to the hospital because he knew that it’s gonna cost him twelve twelve
thousand dollars so but and there are lots of lots of these stories but so
this is why I think the government really started doing something about it
and started to digitise under Obama and I think more than forty billion dollars
worth going into subsidies to basically subsidize the digitization of practices
and hospitals because they believed and I think that’s true that by first of all
digitizing making data available and structured you are starting with making
things more efficient because if you don’t have any data you cannot make
things more efficient so this was basically one of the approaches why they
didn’t want to control data and the bad government want to know everything about
diseases but they wanted to start structuring the system from the ground
up by digitizing practices so they introduced measures like meaningful use
or MIPS and now it’s kind of iterating here over here and pretty much all the
practice and hospitals in the u.s. are digitized and have electronic health
records and I mean talking to my wife she’s a doctor here in Berlin they are
still writing everything on paper in 2018 and and that’s that’s not happening
in in the US so this is kind of one good thing which happened a lot of doctors
don’t like it still because they still have to you know
write things down and type things into the computer but at least there’s a
program behind it which really push that into the healthcare system so that’s
probably one thing 70% of doctors have tablets everybody has a has a has an
electronic health record and a practice management system online this leads to
also the fact that doctors are used to have a digital budget in a monthly
accounting so if you come to them and say hey I have a SAS product cost you
300 or $3,000 a month that’s not something completely
unexpected for them so they are open to talk about this because they see
investing in software has proven to actually be good for my business and so
they are thinking more as I know that you know German doctors are also
entrepreneurs but in the u.s. they are even more entrepreneurs because they are
more inclined to make investments and this might also be because the the the
fact that patients and that’s kind of a third factor the fact that patients have
a high deductible or self-pay a lot of them are not insured at all so they are
paying out of pocket and I had a lot of conversations with a head of product and
he’s you know saving a lot of money every month in order to be secure if
something happens to him or his kids in the future which is something
unthinkable in Germany like I don’t save a dime from my for my salary for any
health care costs because that’s all covered so this also makes patients more
kind of more self-aware or self-aware and also more kind of motivated to
motivate to also choose that doctor on different criteria than you choose a
doctor in Germany so there’s patient experience availability the whole
service around it so health care has actually seen more as a service in the
US than in Germany. If you tell a doctor in Germany that half cares a service
like they send you out of the door but I I deeply believe that health care is a
service and should be treated and built and I think I think that’s a super
important point right when we start investing in health care we came from a
fundamental assumption that we think patient experience will become more
important even in other markets it’s a bit absurd that it is like patient
experience more important in the u.s. because people are paying them more
themselves so you could argue that it’s it’s a bit of a paradox situation
because since patients are a priori not treated that well suddenly their own
experience becomes more important because they decide with their dollars
basically where they go as whereas we who are arguably taking better care of
don’t have any say you know we as patients we can’t influence decisions we
can’t we you know you basically you’re treated not well most of the times but
you can’t really complain you know because because you’re not regarded as a
customer you’re just regarded as a nuisance most of the time and ya know
and that’s what what’s gonna change and what I think something much faster in
the u.s. this is why it’s so interesting for you know innovative companies
software companies who can iterate fast with products and to go to the US
because healthcare is becoming patient centric there’s no way around it right
and if I talk about patient centric I mean really the experience of the
patient is designed through the patient perspective so it’s all about you know
service design basically so finding a doctor choosing a doctor going to a
doctor and also entering the practice of a doctor what happens after the visit in
between visits that’s all going to be designed around
the patient with the patient in the center like every other industry with
the hope that we have also better at our service I wanted to say yeah it’s it’s
healthcare as a service and this needs to be designed with the patient patient
in the center out of the patient perspective so thinking about what are
the emotional needs of the patient in every situation the patient is when they
are feeling bad they don’t know what to do they want to search for doctor all of
these steps and touchpoints in the patient journey will be designed so that
the patient is intuitively navigating through
what makes you be so sure that it’s unavoidable in Germany to happen like
that as well because you also described that we have a system that’s much less
broken than in the US and I think because one way I think I hope that this
will go hand in hand with value-based healthcare so I think like empowering
the patient and making a better experience and also not paying just for
services provided but for actual outcome oriented am i successful with what i do
i hopes will go hand in hand so you know that would be i think at the moment we
germany is a developing country when it comes to modernization of the healthcare
sector we could take the top spot in the world if we are a open to
entrepreneurial activities and be combined a system that is you know
taking care financially of patients quite well while still focusing on
outcome orientation and on patient experience if we if you can pull this
off i think it would be amazing you know then we would unlock a lot of potential
could be the the silicon valley to use an overstressed term of healthcare in
the world but that that has to happen yeah but i think that the structures and
also incentives in germany are just so i don’t know pushed against the wall
there’s no way out like i was i was talking to a friend of mine who’s the
doctor in munich and just yesterday he wants to get rid of his fax machines of
his telephone he’s waste so much time on sending paper faxes to everybody like
he’s interacting with across the organization and and and i said well
yeah we’re gonna solve that problem klaris there’s gonna be the solution
maybe one day we gonna come to germany when when it’s ready and we have the
backing of the right krankenkassen and things like this we said no way man
there’s gonna take us 10 more years because the system is just so there’s so
many incentives for being extremely conservative and staying put and sit on
big bags of money that it’s really hard to change that’s exactly the right point
i think it’s about incentives right how do we structure incentives and I think
that the German market the incentives are built in a way that
they are stabilizing each other right it’s everybody’s incentivized to find
consensus to to keep costs somewhat under control to balance out power
because it’s a system that basically administers itself right so everybody
needs to come to an agreement all the time and that is something very
different from setting incentives to try something amazing that’s very different
from trying to get people to risk something right I mean obviously risk in
healthcare is a very different it’s very different beast but it’s not a system
where people are incentivized to work on something you know that is a great
ambitious goal something very new and I think that has to change to a certain
degree it has done us very well right that we have our costs compared to for
example to us relatively well under control I assume but at the same time
there’s basically we’re not unlocking any entrepreneurial potential what would
you say now we’re thinking about founders in Germany when they listened
to us I mean what should be the conclusion go to the US and start your
business there because next 10 years you won’t get anything here or do we have a
different saying and what what’s your experience Uwe? Because you’re also
looking quite much at some founders yeah so first of all I mean you always you
have to figure out art regulations of the healthcare market a problem for the
thing I am actually trying to do and regulation is one thing and then just
behaviors another thing like a lot of things we see they are killing towards
efficiency gains in the healthcare system and a lot of people at the
healthcare system for them efficiency is not that important which is weird in
itself right because that that should be obviously the case you know
so regulation in health yeah regulation and behavior are two things that are
also not necessary even if something is technically legal and possible still
behavior might be different that being said I don’t think you everybody has to
go to the US. There’s other markets around Germany you know the Nordics for example
is is a system which maybe also for German
politicians is it’s more acceptable in a way than saying we should do everything
like the US maybe let’s look more towards Sweden as an example and say hey
maybe it in the first step we can try to become more like Sweden that’s probably
more more acceptable for a lot of people so Germans go to Stockholm I mean why
not right obviously you need to have local knowledge as well but I mean if
the Simons can pull it off in the u.s. I wouldn’t see why somebody couldn’t
pull it off in Sweden as well and no it’s hard to give like very general
general advice but I think a lot of people are falling into a couple of
traps and think because of some kind of cooperation project with one Krankenkasse
with one paying system they have cracked the code and I don’t think that’s
happening if you ultimately ask your partner’s are you okay with us
replicating a Flatiron Health success you know we’re building a company here
in six years we’re gonna sell it for a billion or more then it’s the latest
point where you realize that the system is not that open to innovation yeah you
could do a little prod you there’s gonna be like some funny startup projects you
know that you can do and you know there’s going to be like a nice little
PR around it but are we actually allowing companies to become that big
where are the people you as a small start-up think about partnering with are
they really allowing you to become that big I’m not so sure
do you have an advice Simon to somebody Go to New York. yeah I’m
extremely skeptical about founding healthcare startups in Germany and the
only way this can succeed is if you collaborate with with insurance
companies and and I see a couple of companies here in Germany which might
have a potential to do that successfully but then also you are dependent on these
insurance companies you don’t know if they will end up doing it themselves and
also what’s going to be the exit scenario there and yeah I would I would
recommend to look into other markets first and like us wait at the sidelines
to things to warm up and then the right entry point to come back and
not to get too nerdy about health insurance in Germany but what Simon said
is exactly right you know there’s a lot of questions that are not really clear
it’s like a mouse dancing with a gorilla but you are startup
trying to do business with a very large organization they’re not even the
company right they’re not even just Hughley think differently and rightfully
so right so I’m not blaming them but it’s
really hard to build that bridge I don’t think we have fully cracked the code yet
and there’s a big difference between doing something with one health
insurance on a selective individual contract basis and doing something with
all health insurances because like the Selective one-to-one relationship with
the health insurance that might seem like a good idea at the beginning but I
think there’s also high risk attached to it from for for various reasons because
you’re dependent because you’re dependent and maybe you know maybe it was more of a
marketing thing to begin with and now it’s not so interesting more for other
health insurances you know maybe it wasn’t even as we all thought a big
breakthrough in medical treatment facilitated by that one pair but
actually more of a marketing thing yeah absolutely and we were also back then
when we used to were in Germany we I mean I remember sitting at the table
with various CEOs of large health insurance companies here in Germany and
I think we had two pilots already in contract phase and then you know sitting
back down with Simon and thinking through the pilots it’s like okay it’s
gonna be three months until the pilot is approved and the CEO is on board he
really wants to do it he’s super passionate about it he visited us twice
in our office in in Mitte here and but it’s gonna be three months so he has the
approval then it’s a pilot three months preparation then it’s three months of
pilot and then we have a decision if they’re gonna fund us or whatever
by that time we’re out of money like the company is bankrupt
yeah and so how can you actually build a model on top of being being reliant on
these things and yeah it’s it yeah it comes down to health care he really
works a little bit more like politics and in the u.s. it’s more about
economics I’m not saying that the US healthcare system is better I think the
German system is much better for the patient in the end but but it’s more
innovative the incentives are struck in a way maybe because they have to that
innovation can really happen Klara what’s going to happen with Klara
over the next few years I think it’s not difficult to predict Germany is not the
market you’re going into the next one or two years what else no we are currently
fastening our seatbelts and gonna step on the gas now and so we are fully gonna
go. Investors listening. Yeah we’re gonna we’re fully gonna go and stick in the US for
the next 12 to 18 months for sure the market is big enough to build multiple
billion-dollar companies in the field we are in but right now it’s really about
getting ready to scale and scaling the business becoming getting a significant
part of all medical practices in the u.s. to use flour as their communication
platform on a product side there are kind of two things involved which we
really highly focus on the one is automation and basically what we do we
are not just a messaging platform but we enable workflows we call them jobs for
medical staff and patients to get done very efficiently through messaging jobs
could be scheduling an appointment sending a lab result tree getting
getting post-op or post-surgery instructions preparing somebody for this
everything around the actual visit is done prior and after the visit on Klara
in a very efficient way so we are enabling these workflows and these jobs
to be done on Klara much more efficiently than they are being done on
the telephone or through the fax machine or even through some physical visits and
consulting things like this so we’re trying to automate them and basically
saving even more time than we are currently saving so we are saving up to
two hours per day for employee who’s not on the phone anymore but actually uses
fara with the patients who really love it but we want to save even more time
by automating workflows and so integrating with scheduling solutions
we’re currently working on a digital signature solution so they can sign
consent forms they can sign intake forms so all of these more complicated
workflows we’re going to enable in in Klara’s messaging UI and the other side
besides of automation and this is also a reason why automation can happen is
integrations so we are currently and heavily pushing into EHR integrations
which is still difficult in the US but much more advanced than it used to be
three years ago integrating with all these numerous EHR systems to get access
to medical data and get access to certain context where we can have
automation and on top of it so we get access to the appointments we get access
to of course the patients themselves maybe the disease types we can trigger
automated messages based on certain phases and stages the patient is
actually in the visit so there’s lots of. pretty exciting and stuff coming up
Would be so good to use it in Germany as well but I think we have to wait for a
few I was just thinking about by the way thank you to all my 16 Instagram
followers who sent me sympathy about my whiny post when I hurt my foot a few
weeks ago and was trying it is just so obviously if you use Klara for the first
time it’s so obvious that this has this has to be the way to do it because
comparing to how I was trying to get a just a prescription for physical therapy
which was the obvious thing to do nobody picked up the phone in that practice for
three or four days because they were too busy was impossible to reach them and a
sent him a fax asked them can you please send me a prescription I said no you
have to come so I came it took ten seconds because they have to like do
that in person there was no questions really asked here’s a prescription okay
bye but so horrible for all sides so unfortunately I think Klara is doing the
exactly right thing by focusing in the u.s. we would need it dearly everywhere
else I think the end game how maybe we can
you know push some change also in Germany is coming from the patient side
and then in the end our our kind of long-term vision is not necessarily on
the provider side itself what we give them you know a messaging solution to
improve their communication with their patients but actually we want to
reinvent the way patients are navigating through the healthcare system by just
doing it by a one very easy and intuitively to use messaging platform
but they can schedule fine doctors talk to all the doctors get the lab result
gets their x-rays involve their their parents or their caretakers into the
conversation involve pharmacies insurances labs everybody involved in a
patient’s journey is is basically in one one conversation and this was by the way
also the reason our first u.s. investor Taylor from from Lerer Hippeau and kind of
invested he went to a doctor he was using Klara and the day after he was
like this makes so much sense incredible he found out that we are
sitting in Berlin we were happened to raise around at the moment and so he was
contacting Christoph who was in the best in us and basically three weeks later we
signed the term sheet because it was so convinced that this is the way you
shouldn’t actually navigate through healthcare so coming back to what I said
is once we have significant mass on the patient side and that may be swaps over
to other countries and it comes from you know the bottom maybe that’s a reason
for change and this is how we might be able to come back to Germany you know
you know patients in Germany would know how easy Klara is to use and how easy
communications with the doctor and the stuff can be I think we all would like
to have it but luckily we’re not too often at the doctor but tell a doctor in
Germany hey this is a solution where you can message your patients they will be
like oh no get this out of my office they they they have access to me they’re
not sending me messages no no I want to see them once every quarter and
you know bill my 17 euros and that’s it and that’s it that makes me rich are we
last question over to you are we seriously looking to invest in digital
health yeah in Germany we yeah absolutely should we focus solely on
other markets like no I think I think we’ll we’ll continue to look everywhere
just because we need to stay on top of things and be educated I’m looking very
closely at German things at the moment where we still think there are niches
that are not niches but segments that work well and a large part of our deal
flow now is actually digital healthcare we look we’re intensely and I think
we’ll we’ll make some more investments here because I think it’s just a
fundamentally exciting space and one that has at least some positive benefits
besides commercial success as well how much of our deal flow and digital health
Germany yeah so it’s pretty intense it’s definitely less than half it’s very
international but still there are some German fighters for revolution in
digital health care out there and of course we we won’t abandon them. Great
after listening to you I hope that we are going to be investing in ventures
maybe that are in the US but hopefully also soon in one to three years in
Germany and maybe also Klara will be used too in Germany. Let’s not give up
hope that the new government and even the people we have contact too will be
changing some things here in Germany it will be I don’t know it hurts when I
think about really great German founders having to go to the u.s. disrupting the
market there and leaving Germany. Yeah one once the wind is right I’m happy to
sail back very nice yeah thank you absolutely thank you thanks Simon

1 comment on “Creating a digital health startup in Germany? – with Simon Bolz and Uwe Horstmann | PAP#030

  1. Sehr nices Interview, habe schon den Podcast gehört. Ich hoffe, dass aber trotzdem ein paar Companies die Fahne hochhalten für den deutschen Standort. Auch wenn die USA/Schweden es einem definitiv einfacher machen. Viel Erfolg weiterhin an Simon&Simon!

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