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Modernization and Improvement
Transforming IT: Embracing the cloud mindset at Scotiabank – BRK2413

Transforming IT: Embracing the cloud mindset at Scotiabank – BRK2413


>>ALL RIGHT. WELCOME. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS AFTERNOON. I AM THRILLED TO BE HERE TODAY, I’M JULIE WHITE, BY THE WAY, MY NEW JOB IS TO BE ON THE BUSINESS SIDE OF ASHER BUT I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A DIALOGUE WITH JUSTIN FROM SKOECH I CAN’T BANK WITH YOU I’M THRILLED TO HAVE HERE AND HE’S BEEN AT SCARAB I CAN’T FOR 16 MONTHS, SO JUST A LITTLE BIT OVER A YEAR AND HE SAYS HE’S IS I LAME LATED BUT I THINK HE’S PROBABLY NOT FULLY ASIMILAR ATEED YET. BUT HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK AT A NUMBER OF ORGANIZATIONS FROM BARCLAYS, FIN TECH START-UP, IBM AND CHEF, SO YOU’VE HAD A VERY CHECKER PAST ZCHLT INDEED I HAVE.>>BUT — >>IT CULMINATES IN SPEAKING HERE ZCHLT THIS IS THE THE PINNACLE. [ LAUGHTER ] >>BUT OPPORTUNITY TO WORK AT SOFTWARE COMPANIES, OPEN SOURCE, AND THEN A LOT WITHIN THE FINANCIAL SERVICES. SO THAT’S MY VERSION. I’D LOVE TO HEAR MORE BUT, TALKING ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND.>>I COULD MAKE IT CHALLENGING FOR YOU AND SAY NO, YOU NAILED IT.>>OKAY. WELL, THEN WE CAN MOVE ON.>>YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT MY WHOLE CAREER HAS REALLY BEEN INTERESTED IN HOW WE — IN HOW TECHNOLOGY CHANGES HOW WE CAN DO BUSINESS AND, PARTICULARLY, HOW OUR BUSINESS NEEDS TO CHANGE IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO EXPLOIT THE BENEFITS OF TECHNOLOGY. BECAUSE YOU KNOW, WE OFTEN THAT THINK THAT WE CAN TAKE THE NEW THING, ASHER, TO TAKE A RANDOM EXAMPLE, AND WE CAN JUST ADOPT IT AND EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE >>>THAT’S TRUE, RIGHT?>>ISN’T IT? SO A WHOLE BUNCH OF MICROSOFT SALES PEOPLE GOING GET HIM OFF. [ LAUGHTER ] >>SO — >>YOU PROMISED TO BE HONEST ZCHLT RIGHT. AND IT TURNS OUT YOU CAN’T, IT TURNS OUT YOUR ORGANIZATION HAS TO MAKE SOME CHANGES IN ORDER TO EXPLOIT THE NEW TECHNOLOGY AND MY ENTIRE CAREER HAS BEEN I SUPPOSE MESSING AROUND WITH MESSING AROUND THAT W THAT BASIC IDEA. AND I THINK IT IS ONE OF THE GREAT CHALLENGES, YOU KNOW, AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT THERE’S JUST NO SILL VERB BULLET. THERE REALLY ISN’T. ORGANIZATIONING ARE DIFFERENT, TECHNOLOGIES ARE DIFFERENT, THE RATES AND THE APPETITES ARE RISK AND ORGANIZATIONS ARE DIFFERENT, THE DIFFERENT CULTURES IN THE GLOBAL ORGANIZATION, DRIVE DIFFERENT DYNAMICS AND I JUST FIND THE WHOLE THING FASCINATING. SO TECHNOLOGY IS ABOUT PEOPLE, IT TURNS OUT.>>FUNNY THING ZCHLT YEAH.>>SO YOUR CURRENT ROLE, ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT THE CURRENT YOU HAVE YOU IN YOUR CURRENT POSITION NOW.>>SO I RUN A PART OF THE ORGANIZATION CALLED THE PLATFORM ORGANIZATION, AND WHAT THE PLATFORM ORGANIZATION IS, IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS A PLATFORM.>>DISCUSS.>>YES. WE’VE HIRED SOME PEOPLE FOR THE MARKETING. WE CAME UP WITH THAT NAME. NO, REWELL DIDN’T KNOW. WE CROPPED SOURCED THE NAME. SO WE CREATED A PLATFORM CALLED PLATO. AND SO PLATO IS A SOFTWARE PLATFORM THAT MY ORGANIZATION BUILDS AND RUNS AND HELPS OUR USERS AND CUSTOMERS IN THE ORGANIZATION TO BUILD ON, AND WHAT PLATO IS, IS ESSENTIALLY A SET OF TECHNOLOGIES THAT TAKES CARE OF ALL OF THE COMPLICATED BITS THAT YOU NEED TO TAKE CARE OF IN A LARGE ORGANIZATION IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO SAFELY BUILD THAT OUT. SO WHAT ARE THE APIS YOU SHOULD USE? WHERE IS THE DATA? WE HAVE A SINGLE CUSTOMER VIEW, HOW DO YOU GET TO THAT? HOW COULD YOU DEPLOY THE CLOUD SAFELY? HOW WHAT ARE THE SECURITY REQUIREMENTS? HOW DO YOU REHE DID TOKEN EYES AND REIDENTIFY DATA ONCE IT IS BEING EGRESSED FROM THE TOP? ALL OF THOSE KINDS OF QUESTIONS, THESE BASIC THINGS THAT WE ALL HAVE TO DO WHEN WE BUILD APPLICATIONS IN FOR OUR BUSINESSES. AND SO THAT APPLIES CERTAINLY TO THE NEW APPLICATIONS AND THE MOBILE APPLICATION THAT IS WE BUILD, BUT IT ALSO APPLIES TO THE TRADITIONAL APPLICATIONS. SO WHAT PLATO, IS AND I THINK THAT THIS IS INTERESTING, 57BD A LITTLE DIFFERENT IS THAT WE’RE NOT JUST FOCUSSED ON CREATING NEW FANCY APPS AND NEW TECHNOLOGY, WE’RE INTERESTED IN HOW WE CAN BUILD A NEW SET OF TECHNOLOGIES THAT CAN ENABLE THE MIGRATION OF CAPABILITY FROM LEGACY APPLICATIONS, LEGACY CODE BASES WRITTEN IN RPG, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, AND HOW DO WE BRING THEM WORLD? SO HOW DO WE CONTINUE GOTH THEM INTO A CONTINUOUS DELIVERY, CONTINUOUS INTEGRATION, DEV OOPS KIND OF MODEL. AND SO FUNDAMENTALLY, PLATO, WHAT WE LIKE TO SAY IN THE ORGANIZATION IS WE ARE THE LITTLE ENGINE WE’RE THE ENGINE OF MODERNIZATION.>>WE’RE GOING TO DIVE MORE IN TO PLATO IN A SECOND BUT I WANT TO SPEND A MINUTE ON, YOU’VE SPENT A BIG CHUNK ON FINANCE AND TECH, I’M CURIOUS WHAT’S DRIVEN YOU TO THAT CONVERSATION?>>WELL, IS THERE ANYTHING MORE EXCITING ABOUT BANKING? REALLY, COME ON. I MEAN, A LOT TO BE SAID FOR AN INDUSTRY THAT HASN’T FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED IN A LONG, LONG TIME. YOU KNOW, THE — IF HAVE YOU A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE WORKING IN A GARAGE MAKING COOL THINGS, THAT’S AWESOME. AND THAT’S A CERTAIN KIND OF HE GIN NEARING PROBLEM THAT IT OPENS TO YOU. I THINK THE ENGINEERING PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE IN FINANCIAL SERVICES TODAY ARE ABSOLUTELIES FASCINATING BECAUSE THEY’RE INTERFACE BETWEEN REGULATION WHICH IS COMING FAST AND FURIOUS, THE INTERFACES ARE FOR PEOPLE AND HOW YOU ARE WORKING WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING WORKING IN THIS ORGANIZATION FOR THE LAST 20, 30, 40 YEARS, AND THEN THIS INCREDIBLE RATE OF CHANGE OF THE TECHNOLOGY ITSELF AND I DON’T THINK YOU FIND THAT REALLY ANYWHERE ELSE. AND SO YOU KNOW, IT’S ALWAYS BEEN FASCINATING TO ME, PARTICULARLY WHEN WE THINK ABOUT REGULATION, WHERE, YOU KNOW, OFTEN REGULATION AND REGULATING CHANGE IS SHOWN AS, IN SOME WAY, SOMETHING THAT HOLDS BACK INNOVATION IN THE FINANCIAL SERVICES, AND I WOULD SAY THAT THAT’S NOT TRUE. I ACTUALLY THINK THERE’S THE REGULATION THAT IS WE’RE SEEING COME SDOUN FROM REGULATE TORS MAKE OUR CUSTOMERS SAFER, TO MAKE THE INDUSTRY MORE STABLE, ARE DRIVING FORCING US TO INNOVATE IN WAY THAT IS WE WOULDN’T HAVE OTHERWISE. I THINK THAT THAT INNOVATION FROM A REGULATY POINT OF VIEW IS LUTELY FASCINATING. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE KNOW IF YOU COME FROM A SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, DEV OOPS KIND OF WORLD, WE KNOW THAT GOING SLOW ISN’T SAFER, RIGHT? SO DOING THESE MASSIVE BIG RELEASE AND THINKING IT’S OKAY, IF IT TAUNGDZ A YEAR TO FIX SOMETHING, IT’S SAFE. IT TURNS OUT THAT’S NONSENSE. BECAUSE WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND IN THE NEXT HOUR, OR THE NEXT DAY, BECAUSE WE NEED TO START BUILDING PROCESS THAT IS ARE ABLE TO ADJUST AND IMPLEMENT NEW REGULATIONS AT VELOCITY. AND RESPOND TO EXTERNAL THREATS AT VELOCITY. AND SO IT TURNS OUT, AND I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS THAT YOU’RE SEEING IN ALL OF THE BANKS THAT ARE WORKING IN THIS SPACE, IS REALLY BEGINNING TO GET TO THE CORE OF FASTER IS SAFER. VELOCITY OF SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT IS SAFER. THAT’S HOW BANKS ARE SAFE. BY ENSURING THAT THEY HAVE TO BUILD THE SECURITY AND THE PROCESSES THAT DRIVE THAT STABILITY AND SAFETY INTO THE CORE OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT PRACTICES. AND, OF COURSE, WE HAVE A PRODUCT CALLED ACCELERATOR WHICH WE’RE TALKING ABOUT TOMORROW, AND ACCELERATOR IS ESSENTIALLY AN EMBODIMENT OF THAT.>>SO THAT SEEMS QUITE DIFFERENT THAN A LOT OF THE MORE REGULATED COMPANIES I TALK WITH, WHERE WE TEND TO SAY SECURITY AND REGULATION IS THE THINGS THAT IMPEDE KEEPING UP WITH TECHNOLOGY. YOU COMPLETELY FLIPPED THAT ON ITS HEAD. SO HAVE YOU GOTTEN THE ORGANIZATION TO GET A CHANCE TO SEE THE WORLD VIEW?>>WELL, I YOU KNOW, THE COMMON PHRASE YOU HEAR FROM SECURITY ORGANIZATIONS, AND I’M SURE WHEN THEY HEAR THAT, THEY ROLL THEIR EYES. BUT THE REALITY IS WE HAVE TO LITERALLY BUILD THAT RESPONSIBILITY, THOSE CHECKS, IN TO ABSOLUTELY EVERY SINGLE STEP OF THE PROCESS. NOW, WHAT IS INTERESTING IS, IF YOU TAKE AN EXISTING SET OF PROCESSES THAT, FOR ARGUMENT’S SAKE, 20 YEARS OLD, AND YOU START APPLYING NEW TECHNOLOGY OR NEW IDEAS TO THEM AND YOU THANK YOU’RE GOING TO TAKE THE PROCESS AND DO THIS T FASTER, YOU’VE MISUNDERSTOOD. SO WHAT THIS FORCES IS IT FORCES AN EXCHANGE BETWEEN COMMITTED PROFESSIONALS AND THE ENGINEERING ENVIRONMENTS AND THE SECURITY ENVIRONMENTS AND THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMENTS TO START SAYING, OKAY, WHAT ACTUALLY ARE THE RISKS. DO WE UNDERSTAND THE RISKS, HOW DO WE MITIGATE THE RISKS, HOW DO WE MANAGE THEM, WHAT CAN TECHNOLOGY MAKE AVAILABLE TO US THAT IT PREVIOUSLY WASN’T ABLE TO, AS HAS OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE THREAT CHANGED, AND THESE CONVERSATIONS THAT HAPPEN THAT I THING IN AN ORGANIZATION WHEN YOU ASSUME THE SOMEWHAT STATIC NEVER CHANGING RISK LANDSCAPE, IT JUST DOESN’T — THESE CONVERSATIONS DON’T HAPPEN TO THE SAME DEPTH AND SO THE DIRECT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS WE’VE HAD SOME GREAT PARTNERSHIP ACROSS THE ORGANIZATION FROM SECURITY AND REGULATORY ADVISORERS TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE THE RISK THAT IS WE’RE TRYING TO PROTECT, HOW DO WE PROTECT OUR CUSTOMERS, HOW DO WE PROTECT THE BANK, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, HOW DOES THE NEW TECHNOLOGY ENABLE US TO DO IT BETTER, WHILE STILL DRIVING VALUE AND VERY LOSS TEA.>>SO IT HAS BEEN, TO BE VERY MUCH TAKEN THOSE KEY STAKEHOLDERS ON THE JOURNEY, UNDERSTANDING THE TECHNOLOGY, UNDERSTANDING THE THREAT LANDSCAPE SO THEY CAN REALLY UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS ACTUALLY MAYBE THE REVERSE OF WHAT THEY WOULD NATURALLY BRING ZCHLT YEAH. AND I THINK IT IS TRUE TO SAY THAT THIS ENVIRONMENT THAT WE’RE IN REQUIRES EDUCATION ON BOTH SIDES. THE STACK ITSELF IS EVOLVING THAT WE ARE CONTINUOUSLY OBVIOUSLY LEARNING AND USING THE NEW FEATURES THAT ARE AVAILABLE AND PRIORITIZING THE INVESTMENTS IN THE VARIOUS TECHNOLOGIES AND AT THE SAME TIME, THE THREAT ENVIRONMENT IS ALSO CHANGING. AND SO IT IS EDUCATION BOTH WAYS THAT HAS PRODUCED ZCHLT SO YOU’VE COME IN TO YOUR ROLE AND BROUGHT WHAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED A PRODUCT MINDSET INTO THE ORGANIZATION. SO WHAT I’M INTERESTING TREAD IN UNDERSTANDING WHAT THAT COMING IN TO THE BANK, COMING WITH A PRODUCT MINDSET, WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE AND THEN WALK US THROUGH SOME OF WHAT THE CHANGE AROUND THAT HAS BEEN.>>YEAH, I MEAN, THE FIRST OF ALL, THE USE OF THE WORD PRODUCT IN A BANK IS AN INTERESTING CHOICE. BECAUSE BANKS HISTORICALLY HAVE BEEN VERY HISTORICALLY PRODUCT ORIENTED SO BANKS HISTORICALLY HAVE BEEN INTERESTED IN SELLING YOU A BANKING PRODUCT, O CREDIT ACCOUNT, A CREDIT CARD, OR A PRODUCT, AND, OF COURSE, WHAT BANKS CERTAINLY SCARAB I CAN’T IS VERY COMMITTED TO THIS ARE INTERESTED IN DOING IS, THESE DAYS, IS BEING CUSTOMER FOCUSSED, FOR INTERESTED IN WHATEVER THE CUSTOMER NEEDS AND THEN UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE CUSTOMER NEEDS AND UNDERSTANDING THE PRODUCTS, IT SONDES LIKE PRETTY SENSIBLE BUSINESS BEHAVIOR. AND SO YOU USE THE WAVERED PRODUCT IN A BARNG, WE NEED TO BE CLEAR THAT NOT WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT IS PRODUCT IN THE BANKING SENSE BUT IT IS MOVING SOFTWARE ENGINEERING ONE STEP UP THE MATURITY CURVE WHERE ACTUALLY VERY CUSTOMER FOCUSSED BUSINESSES HAVE BEEN FOR SOME TIME WHICH IS ASKING, WHAT DOES THE CUSTOMER WANT? HOW MANY LARGE IT ORGANIZATIONS, LARGE TECHNOLOGY FUNCTIONS DO YOU KNOW CAN REALLY BE SAID TO BE AS FOLKSED ON THEIR CUSTOMER AS IF THEY WERE A SOFTWARE COMPANY. AND SO THE PLATFORM ORGANIZATION WE LIKE TO THINK OURSELVES AS A LITTLE SOFTWARE COMPANY INSIDE OF SCARAB I CAN’T BANK, SO WE THINK ABOUT OURSELVES IN TERMS OF WHAT ARE WE BUILDING, WHO IS GOING TO USE IT, WHAT IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT, WHAT JOB IS IT DOING FOR OUR CUSTOMERS THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, AS OPPOSED TO A SHUFRNG WORKS OFF IN A CORNER WHERE WE GO AWAY, WE COME BACK NINE MONTHS LATER AND SAY OH, WE BUILT THIS INCREDIBLY COOL THING AND EVERYONE GOES, OH, OKAY, WHAT PROBLEM DOES IT SOLVE? AND SO IF YOU START THINKING OF YOURSELF AS A TECHNOLOGY FUNCTION AS A SOFTWARE COMPANY, IT CHANGES YOUR MINDSET. AND SO WHAT WE ARE INCLEMENTING IN OUR ORGANIZATION IS SOME VERY FORMAL AND WE’VE SPOKEN TO MOCK RESOFT PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT AREAS AND WE’RE IMPLEMENTING SOME VERY, VERY FORMAL PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT PRACTICES, AND SO THOSE ARE THE SAME PRONGS YOU WOULD FIND IN ANY OTHER SOFTWARE ORGANIZATION, SO THAT HAS MADE US MORE CUSTOMER INTIMATE, IT HAS MADE US UNDERSTAND THE ECONOMICS OF CUSTOMER TECHNOLOGY, ECONOMICS OF TECH THEOLOGY BETTER, AND THAT HAS ENABLED US TO MAKE A BETTER VOLUME PROPOSITION FOR OUR CUSTOMERS, FOR OUR USER ZCHLT THAT SOUNDS AWESOME BUT I IMAGINE YOU JUST DOESN’T SHOW UP AND SNAP YOUR FINGERS AND EVERYONE STARTED THINKING LIKE A SOFTWARE COMPANY WITHIN THE BANK. SO I’D LOVE TO HEAR THE REAL CHANGE THAT HAD TO HAPPEN AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT DINED OF PRIOR LESSONS LEARNED THROUGH IT.>>NO, NO, IT WAS JUST THE SNAP OF THE FINGERS REALLY. SO LOOK, THE ISSUE OF DRIVING CHANGE IN LARGE ORGANIZATIONS, IS, AND I’LL TRY AND KEEP MY ANSWER SHORTER, BUT THE ISSUE IS, IF YOU WANT TO DRIVE CHANGE, YOU HAVE TO GIVE PEOPLE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE CHANGE LOOKS LIKE. SO VERY OFTEN WE SAY, OKAY, WE’RE GOING THROUGH A CHANGE, WE’RE GOING TO IMPLEMENT CLOUD AND WE’RE GOING TO DO DEV OOPS AND WE’RE GOING TO DO ALL OF THESE THINGS, AND IF ONE GOES, OKAY, MAYBE, I GUESS. IT SOUNDS OKAY. BUT I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN. WHAT DOES THIS FUTURE WORLD LOOK LIKE THAT YOU ARE ASKING ME TO COMMIT TO? AND SO IF YOUR TRYING TO CHANGE A LARGE ORGANIZATION SO SCOTIA BANK HAS 90,000 EMPLOYEES SO, YOU’RE TRYING TO CHANGE A LARGE ORGANIZATION, THE WAY YOU CHANGE IT IS NOT BY CHANGING THE WHOLE ORGANIZATION. THE WAY YOU CHANGE IT IS BY CREATING EXAMPLES OF WHAT THAT SUCCESSFUL CHANGE LOOKS LININGS IN SMALLER SPLICES. SO IMAGINE YOU WERE DOING A LEAN MANUFACTURING PROCESS, SMALL BATCHES, SO WHAT WHAT WE HAVE IS WE HAVE MANAGED AS AN ORGANIZATION, THE PLATFORM ORGANIZATION, TO ACHIEVE SMALL WINS. AND EACH ITERATION OF THOSE SMALL WINS WE HAVE IMPROVED OUR PRACTICE. AND SO WE HAVE ATTEMPTED TO CONTINUOUSLY IMPROVE, AND OUR INTERFACE WITH OUR CUSTOMERS IS CONTINUOUS LOW IMPROVING. BUT ALSO, THE EXAMPLE THAT WE CAN SHOW OF THIS IS WHAT WE THINK, A GOOD ARCHITECTURE FOR A COORDINATED APP LOOKS LARKS THSHG IS WHAT WE THINK A GAD ARCHITECTURE FOR A PACKAGE ORIENTED NONCLOUD NATIVE APP RUNNING ON THE CLOUD LOOKS LIKE, THIS IS WHAT THE TEEN STRUCTURE TALLY LOOKS LIKE, THIS WHAT THE ECONOMICS IN THE MIGRATION, ALL OF THIS INCLUDES AND WE’RE ABLE TO POINT THAT TO PEOPLE TO THAT EXAMPLE, TO SAY, OKAY WHEN, WE TALK ABOUT OPERATING IN THIS PLATFORM ORIENTED WAY OR IN THIS PRODUCT ORIENTED WAY, THAT’S WHAT WE MEAN. SO GO SPEAK TO THESE 20 PEOPLE WHO HAVE JUST IMPLEMENTED THE AN INTER KNIT BANK, THAT’S WHAT WE MEAN. SO IT IS CREATING SMALL EXAMPLES THAT YOU CAN THEN SCALE ACROSS THE ORGANIZATION. AND I THINK ONE OF THE CRITICAL THINGS IN DRIVING CHANGE IS TO UNDERSTAND THAT AT THE BEGINNING YOU DON’T KNOW THE QUESTIONS TO ASK. AND I THINK A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS WILL TEND TO RUN TO AN ORGANIZATIONAL SOLUTION VERY FAST. SO I’M SURE MANY OF YOU IN THE AUDIENCE HAVE, YOU HAVE IS THIS NEW THING AND IT’S CLOUD AND SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO IS WE’RE GOING TO CREATE AN ORGANIZATION. AND WE HAVE A DEV OPS ORGANIZATION AND WE HAVE A CLOUD ORGANIZATION, WE HAVE THIS, AND WE HAVE THIS, AND THAT’S NOT TO SAY YOU DON’T NEED ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE, BUT ORGANIZATIONS DON’T SOLVE CULTURAL CHANGE. YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS YOU HAVE TO CREATE AN EXAMPLE THAT ROLE MODELS AND I THINK IF A VERY HUMBLE WAY, THIS IS WHAT WE — THIS IS HOW WE THINK IT WORKS. AND THIS IS WE NEED TO IMPROVE. AND THIS IS HOW WE CONTINUE TO IMPROVE AND YOU ALL ARE THAT WE ARE DOING IT WITH ARE PART OF THAT CONVERSATION. AND I WILL SAY THAT PROCESS HAS BEEN EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE AT SCOTIA BANK AND ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES THAT HE WE HAVE THE SUPPORT WE HAVE FOR THIS KIND OF INITIATIVE LITERALLY COMING FROM THE TOP OF THE HOUSE. SO OUR CEO BRIAN PORTER HAS SAID PUBLICALLY THAT WE ARE, WE’RE A SOFTWARE COMPANY THAT JUST HAPPENS TO BE IN FINANCIAL SERVICES.>>OKAY. >>AND SO THAT SUPPORT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF OUR SUCCESS.>>GOT IT. HAVE THE MANDATE IN THE AIR COVER BUT YOU EARNED IT BY KIND OF SHOWING PEOPLE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AND THEN REPEATING AND REWARDING THAT ALONG THE WAY ZCHLT YEAH.>>ONE OF THE CONVERSATIONS I HAVE WITH CUSTOMERS, YOU KNOW, CENTRAL ORGANIZATIONS LIKE YOURSELF, VERSUS HAVING IT DISTROCHE JUT JUTEED IN THE PRODUCT LINES OR THE GROUPS, AND INTERESTED IN HOW THAT WORKS AT SCOTIA AND I’M GUESSING IT HAS CHANGED OVER THE YEARS TOO.>>ANYONE THAT HAS WORKED IN, IT IS LIKE A PENDULUM. I DON’T KNOW WHERE WE ARE IN THE CYCLE RIGHT NOW. BUT IT SWINGS FROM CENTRALIZATION TO DECENTRALIZATION BEING IN VOGUE. AND PERHAPS WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS BREAK OUT OF THAT CYCLE AND SAY, WELL, THERE NEEDS TO BE A POINT, AN ORGANIZATIONAL CENTER OF GRAVITY, WHERE PEOPLE WORK ON SOME OF THESE COMMON PROBLEMS. AND THAT’S THE PLATFORM. AND SO WE IDENTIFY THESE COMMON PROBLEMS IF WE’RE ABLE TO DO IT IN A CUSTOMER CENTRIC WAY, USING THESE PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT APPROACHES THAT KEEPS US HONEST. AND KEEPS US SOLVING REAL PROBLEMS. BUT THAT DOESN’T SCALE. AND I’VE SEEN A LOT OF TRANSFORMATION EFFORTS IN PREVIOUS PLACES FAIL BECAUSE THE POINT WHERE IT STARTS IS THE POINT THAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO GO THROUGH FOR THE FUTURE. SO WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS IF THE PLATFORM ORGANIZATION, IF MY TEAM IS THE PLATO TEAM ALWAYS HAS TO BE INVOLVED, IN ALL OF THE USE OF PLATO, WE’LL NEVER SCALE IT ACROSS THE 55 COUNTRIES THAT SCOTIA BANK IS IN. AND THE ANALOGOUS EXAMPLE WOULD BE IF MICROSOFT WANTED POWER SHELL TO TAKE OFF BUT IN ORDER FOR ANYONE TO WRITE POWER SHE WILL HAVE YOU TO WORK AT MICROSOFT, PRETTY SURE POWER SHELL WOULDN’T HAVE TAKEN OFF. RIGHT? AND SO THE SAME THING GOES FOR OUR PLATFORM. OUR JOB IS ALTHOUGH WE ARE THE CENTER POINT, OUR JOB IS TO ENABLE THE CUSTOMERS. I THINK SUCCESS FOR US IS SHRINKAGE APPROACH. SUCCESS FOR US IS CREATING AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS SO ENABLED TO WRITE THE KIND OF APPLICATIONS, TO IMPLEMENT THE PRACTICES AND TO CONTRIBUTE THOSE PRACTICES BACK TO THE CODE BASE SO USING OPEN SOURCE TYPE PRACTICES, THAT WE ARE ABLE TO DO THIS. AND SO WE ARE SO WE ARE SOME WAY FROM THAT. AND SO BUT THE PRINCIPLE HAS TO BE HOW DO YOU SCALE THAT CHANGE? BECAUSE REMEMBER, ALSO, IF YOU ARE ENABLING THE ORGANIZATION AT THE EDGE, WHAT YOU ARE ALSO PICKING UP THROUGH THAT ENABLEMENT IS YOU’RE PICKING UP REQUIREMENTS THAT OTHERWISE YOU WOULDN’T HAVE SEEN. SO, YOU KNOW, A PHRASE THAT WE’VE USED BEFORE INTERNALLY IS PRODUCT ADVERTISE THE CORE, WHAT ARE THE CORE REQUIREMENTS, LET’S PRODUCT ADVERTISE THAT, PRODUCT ADVERTISE THE CORE BUT ACCELERATE THE EDGE. SO WE WANT TO ENABLE OUR DEVELOPERS IN THE INDIVIDUAL COUNTRIES TO SEE WHO IS MOVING AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE, SAFELY AS POSSIBLE, SO FOR THAT, WE HAVE TO USE, THAT JUST LIKE A SOFTWARE COMPANY, TO SEAT SKILLS WE NEED, THE MENTORING WE NEED, SO WE CAN DO THAT. >>GOT IT.>>TO THE PLATFORM THAT YOU’VE BUILT AND THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE GENERAL ‘TIS OF THAT WATCHES AND HOW IT HAS EVOLVED OVER THE PASTIME.>>WELL, THE PLATFORM ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, REALLY STARTED WITH CLOUD, AND I NIFRNG WHAT WAS VERY CLEAR TO US PARTICULARLY GIVE WEB HAVE A MULTICLOUD STRATEGY, WHAT WAS PARTICULARLY CLEAR WAS THAT THE LOCATION OR THE PROVIDER OF THE CLOUD IS NOT ACTUAL LEE THE ISSUE, IT’S NOT THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND THE VALUE THAT YOU GET FROM CLOUD. SO THE PHRASE THAT WE LIKE TO USE, AND I’LL EXPLAIN WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, THE PHRASE WE LIKE TO USE IS CLOUD IS A METHOD, NOT A LOCATION. AND SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS THE FACT THAT YOU HAPPEN TO BE DEPLOYING TO ASHER IS INTERESTING. BUT THE LOCATION OF THAT DATA, THE FACT THAT IT’S NOT IN YOUR DATACENTER, IS NOT THE ISSUE. THE FACT THAT YOU ARE METHODOLOGICALLY ABLE TO PROGRAMMATICALLY CONTROL ACCESS TO THOSE RESOURCES, THAT’S THE POINT. THE FACT THAT YOU’RE ABLE TO USE THAT PROGRAMMATIC CONTROL OF RESOURCES IN A CONTINUOUS DELIVERY APPROACH, CONTINUOUSLY TESTING, CONTINUOUSLY PUSHING CHANGES, THAT’S A METHODOLOGICAL CHANGE FROM HOW MOST INFRASTRUCTURE WORKS. AND SO CLOUD, FOR US, IS AS MUCH ABOUT ADOPTING THESE HIGH VELOCITY DEVELOPMENT PIPELINES, WHICH HAPPEN TO TERMINATE IN THE CLOUD, AS ANYTHING ELSE. BECAUSE THE REALITY IS, AND I’M SURE SOME OF YOU HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY PROBABLY A DECADE AGO, WHEN CLOUD WAS STILL A LITTLE YOUNGER, A NUMBER OF ORGANIZATIONS BOTH FOR THEIR ON PREMISES IMPLEMENTATIONS AS WELL AS PUBLIC CLOUD WERE QUICK TO PUT UP CORPORALS WHICH HAVE YOUR TEST IN FIVE MINUTES. AND SO YOU WOULD SPIN UP THESE ENVIRONMENTS IN FIVE MINUTES AND PROBABLY ON A VM WARE IMAGE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, MAYBE, AND YOU’D SPIN IT UP AND YOU’D HAVE AND IT YOUR DEVELOPERS WOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THIS ENVIRONMENT AND EVAN WOULD GO WOW, THAT’S FANTASTIC. OKAY. SO I GOT MY NEW DEV ENVIRONMENT IN FIVE MINUTES. I’M SLOWLY GOING TO CERTAIN ANYTHING TO THE CUSTOMER IN QUARTERVILLE. SO WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? WHAT DID YOU REALLY WIN? THEN WHAT ALSO BECAME INTERESTING WAS THAT THAT STANDARDIZED IMAGE WAS THEN LOOKED AT BY THE DEVELOPER, THE DEVELOPER STARTS DOING WHAT DEVELOPERS DO WHICH IS INNOVATIVE AND CREATIVE THINGS AND ASKING FOR NEW STUFF AND THEN, OF COURSE THE PROCESS FOR CHANGING THAT IMAGE WASN’T AUTOMATED. AND SO EVEN THOUGH YOU GOT IT IN FIVE MINUTES, THE CHANGES STILL TOOK YOU THREE MONTH TO GET. AND SO WHAT THIS CLOUD IS A METHOD, NOT A LOCATION REALLY MEANS IS BUILDING PIPELINES WHICH ALLOW YOU TO SAFELY MANAGE THE CHANGE CONTINUOUSLY, BOTH FROM THE POINT OF CREATION OF ENVIRONMENTS, ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE RUNNING DEPLOYMENT AND OPERATION OF THOSE ENVIRONMENTS. AND SO YOU KNOW, THAT IS A FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE FOR US. AND I THINK THAT — I THINK THAT THAT HAS BEEN CENTRAL TO THE HOW WE DEVELOP THE PLATFORM, BECAUSE STARTING WITH CLOUD, WE THEN BUILT ON TOP OF THAT DEVELOPMENT AND THEN YOU START ASKING YOURSELF WHAT THOSE DEVELOPMENT TASKS, THOSE ACTIVITIES, WHAT KIND OF DEVELOPERS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE? IF WE’RE TALKING ABOUT APPLICATION DEVELOPERS, WE NEED APIS. SO WE HAVE A WHOLE SEAT OF REASONABLE ALEA APIS ACROSS THE ORGANIZATION. SO WE IN THE SAME LOCATION, BUT WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY WANTING TO GET INTO THE DITTY THAT? SO WE HAVE WELL DEFINED DATA END POINTS AND MIKE RESERVICES FOR ACCESSING, DATA WHERE WE HAVE CRITICAL DATA ELEMENTS, PRIO SAYRE SOURCE OF DATA IDENTIFIED. THESE THINGS, INCLUDING THE AP ISS ARE THEN SEARCHABLE ON A PORTAL WHICH DEVELOPERS CAN THEN LOOK THROUGH. AND SO THIS IS ESSENTIALLY US TRYING TO BUILD A ECOSYSTEM OF DEVELOPMENT FOR ENGINEERS, GET THE BASICS OUT OF THE BOX, AS IT WERE. AND SO I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT WE BUILT OUR PLATFORM DRIVEN BY DEMAND, SO WHEN WE STARTED, IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF CLOUD, AND YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT OF PIPELINE, AND OVER THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF IT’S TURNED INTO A LOT OF CLOUD AND A LOT OF PLATFORM AND A LOT OF SECURITY. SO AS PART OF PLATO, WE HAVE CENTRALIZED SECURITY SERVICES AND THAT TYPE OF THING.>>SO YOU COUPLED YOUR MOVE TO THE CLOUD MODEL, DEV OPS, AND YOU MIXED THOSE TOGETHER AS HOW YOU THINK ABOUT HOW YOU CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THOSE >>YES, ABSOLUTELY. THE WORD DIGITAL TRANSFORMATION GETS GETS USED A LOT. AND THE TRANSFORMATION GETS USED A LOT. AND YOU PUT THE TWO TOGETHER AND NO ONE KNOW WHAT IS YOU MEAN. SO FOR US, HOW WE THINK ABOUT IT IS, TO COIN THE PHRASE, IT’S SHORTENING OF FEEDBACK. THAT’S FUNDAMENTALLY WHAT IT IS. YOU’RE CREATING A ORGANIZATION THAT SHORTNESS THE FEEDBACK LOOP BETWEEN YOU AS A APPLICATION DEVELOPER AS A ENGINEER AND THE END CUSTOMER. YOU SEE WHAT THE CUSTOMER SEES, UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CUSTOMER IS LOOKING AT, RESPOND TO IT TO MAKE YOURSELF STUFF BETTER AND THEN WORKING TOGETHER AS A GROUP OF ENGINEERS, HOW DO YOU FORCE THE FEEDBACK LOOPS BETWEEN YOURSELVES? BECAUSE IT TURNS OUT IF YOU WANT TO SHORT BE THE FEEDBACK LOOP BETWEEN YOU AND THE CUSTOMER, YOU HAVE TO SHORTEN THE FEEDBACK LOOP BETWEEN YOU AND THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THE SUPPLY CHANGE OF DELIVERING THE APPLICATION. SO DIGITAL TRANSFORMATION, WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE, ISN’T ABOUT PRETTY WEBSITES, IT’S NOT ABOUT DEV OOPS, IT’S ABOUT SHORTENING THE FEEDBACK LOOPS. AND THAT’S A HARD THING TO DO IN A LARGE COMPANY. IT’S A LARGE, IT’S A DIFFICULT THING TO DO IN A SMALL COMPANY. SO A LOT OF WHAT WE FOCUS ON IN PLATO IS NOT ONLY THE TECHNOLOGY AS I SAID EARLIER, IT’S THE PEOPLE, IT’S THE PRACTICE THAT GOES AROUND, HOW DO WE THINK WITH THE DELIVERY THIS APPLICATION IN A WAY THAT MAKES US CHALLENGE HOW DO WE GET THAT FEEDBACK FASTLY FROM EACH OTHER AND OUR EXAMINERS?>>YOU’VE TAKEN A MULTICLOUD APPROACH SO, INTERESTED NE KIND OF HOW YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, DECISIONS ON HOW YOU DECIDE AND WHAT GOES WHERE AND HOW THINGS ARE RUN.>>WELL, I MEAN, IF YOU TAKE THIS APPROACH OF, YOU KNOW, CLOUD IS A METHOD OF LOCATION, THE MULTICARD APPROACH, ESSENTIALLY RECOMMENDS ITSELF. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS IF THE CLOUD IS ESSENTIALLY A FUNCTION OF THE KINDS OF RESOURCES THAT YOU WANT PROGRAMMATIC CONTROL OVER, SO SOME OF THE CAME BITS THAT WE GET FROM ASHER LIKE THE SCALE SETS, THINGS LIKE THAT, OKAY, WELL, THEN THEY BECOME CAPABILITIES AND DEVELOPMENT TOOLS THAT YOU’RE PROVIDING AVAILABLE FOR APPLICATION DEVELOPERS. AND THERE WILL BE OTHER CLOUDS WITH OTHER FUNCTIONS. SO SOME OF THE INTERESTING WORK THAT ASH HER IS DOING AROUND SERVICELESS COMPUTING I THINK WILL BE SOMETHING WE’LL BE LOOKING AT AND THERE ARE OTHER FUNCTIONS FROM SOME OF THE OTHER CLOUD PROVIDERS OUT THERE. THE POINT IS THAT MULTICLOUD APPROACH, IF WE ARE TAKING THIS ACCELERATOR ORIENTED APPROACH WHICH IS WHAT OUR PRODUCT IS, DEVELOPMENT PIPELINE PRODUCT, IF WE’RE TAKING THIS PIPELINE ORIENTED VIEW OF CLOUD, IT THEN MEANS THAT WE’RE ABLE TO PICK THE BEST PROVIDER BASED ON THE NATIVE CAPABILITIES OF THE CLOUD FOR OUR PARTICULAR CUSTOMER’S WORKERS. AND I THINK YOU’RE BEGINNING TO SEE SOME DIFFERENCE AND SOME DIFFERENT STRATEGIC POSITIONING BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT CLOUD PROVIDERS AND I THANK THAT THAT’S AN INTELLIGENT THING FOR AN ORGANIZATION TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF. SO WE CAN PLAY WITH YOU WHERE YOU ARE STRONGEST.>>GOT IT. GOT IT. SO WITHIN YOUR ORGANIZATION, BECAUSE I GET THIS QUESTION ABOUT MULTICLOUD AND HOW TO DO IT WELL, SO DO YOU HAVE A NEED FOR THIS SET OF CAPABILITIES OR THIS TYPE OF APPLICATION, AT WORK, WE USE THIS, VERSUS THAT, OR IS IT KIND OF LIKE HEY WE HAVE THIS SET UP AND WE LET DEVELOPERS DECIDE OR HOW DOES IT WORK IN THE REAL WORLD? SO, WE HAVE A PROFESSIONAL SERVICES ORGANIZATION, RUN BY MY FRIEND RYAN OVER THERE. ORB FOAM WORKS WITH THEM. WE WANT TO GET WHERE NONE OF IT MATTERS, WHERE IT IS ALL COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT, BUT WE’RE NOT THERE YET. AND I THINK THAT THAT IS A BIG CHALLENGE. BUT CLEARLY WHAT I WILL SAY, THOUGH, IS THAT SELF-SERVE CAPABILITIES, THE SELF-SERVE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO SELF-PROVISION STUFF, THESE SELF-SERVE CAPABILITIES ARE THINGS THAT WE HAVE IN MANY PLACES, SELF-SERVE IS A BIG FOLK HE IS FOR US AND IT’S SOMETHING THAT WE’RE GOING TO FOCUS ON BECAUSE THAT IS PART OF THE SCALE. IT IS PART OF HOW WE ENABLE OUR CUSTOMERS, TO BE ABLE TO DO SOME OF THE BASIC THINGS WITH AS LITTLE TOUCH FROM US AS POSSIBLE. SO THEY CAN GO AND CREATE A REPO, AND UNDERSTAND HOW TO DEPLOY AN APPLICATION AND USE AN EXAMPLE APPLICATION TO BEGIN TO GET THE HANG OF IT AND THEN THEY CAN REACH OUT TO US. FE THEY WANT MORE >>AND ANOTHER QUESTION I HEAR A LOT SO I’D LOVE YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON IT SO AS YOU MOVE TO CLOUD AND THE DEFAULT APPROACH, WHAT HAS IT MEANT FROM CHANGES ON TEAM, MINDSET, SKILL SET, PEOPLE HAVE TO SHIFT JOBS, PEOPLE LAID OFF, THE WHOLE SPECTRUM OF THINGS, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?>>SO I THINK ONE OF THE MYTHS IN THIS DIGITAL TRANSFORMATION WORLD, THE TERM AS WE ALL KNOW IT, ONE OF THE MYTHS IS THAT YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THESE UNICORNS THAT YOU CAN GO HUNT AND HIRE AND EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY. AND IT THAT’S JUST NOT TRUE. AND IF YOU’RE IN A VERY LARGE ORGANIZATION, NOT EVEN A VERY LARGE ORGANIZATION, FRANKLY, A FAIRLY SMALL ORGANIZATION, YOU STILL HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL THERE. WHO HAVE A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF DOMAIN KNOWLEDGE SITTING IN THEIR HEADS. HOW — AND SO THIS CREATING THIS DYNAMICS WELL, IT’S THEM AND IT’S US. AND SO TRANSFORMATION REQUIRES THE BUILDING OF PEOPLE. THAT DOESN’T MEAN TO SAY YOU SHOULD NOT BE HIRING NEW PEOPLE FROM THE OUTSIDE WITH OTHER SKILLS. OF COURSE WE SHOULD. WE SHOULD ALWAYS BE ATTEMPTING TO GET NEW IDEAS. BUT DUE NOT TRANSFORM ORGANIZATION BUT BY NOT TRANSFORMING YOUR ORGANIZATION. TRANSFORM YOUR ORGANIZATION BY ENSURING THAT THROUGH THE PRACTICES, THE XAFRMGS THAT I GAVE EARLIER, THIS IDEA OF THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW ONE WORKS, RIGHT, USING THAT, NOT ONLY WITH THE NEW PEOPLE THAT YOU’VE BROUGHT IN BUT ALSO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PROVIDING A LOT OF THE DOMAIN KNOWLEDGE, THE SYSTEMS FROM WHICH YOU ARE PERHAPS MIGRATING, THESE PEOPLE NEED TO BE INVOLVED AND, IN MANY CASE, THERE’S HUGE AMOUNT OF VALUE AND ADOPTION AND UPTAKE AND THAT’S HOW YOU TRANSFORM THE ORGANIZATION. YOUANCE FORM IT BY MEETING PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE AND GIVING THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE HOW WORKING DIFFERENTLY ACTUALLY WORKS. AND SO YOU KNOW, WE’VE TRIED TO TAKE — WE’VE TRIED TO TAKE THAT KIND OF INCLUSIVE KIND OF APPROACH, AND GIVE THAN WE ARE IN ALL OF OUR MAJOR MARKETS WITH PLATO, GIVEN THAT WE HAVE SOME REAL BUSINESS RESULTS IN ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE WORKING ON BOTH DIGITAL NEW SHINY APPLICATIONS ARCHED THAT SORT OF THING, AS WELL AS CORE BANKING APPLICATIONS, I THINK WE’VE HAD A MEASURE OF SUCCESS. BUT IT’S A CONTINUED — IT’S PART OF OUR COMMITMENT TO REALLY TRY TO REALIZE WHAT TRANSFORMING THE ORGANIZATION REALLY MEANS, WHAT IT MEANS FOR US TO BECOME MORE LIKE A SOFTWARE COMPANY. SO IT’S A CONTINUAL THING THAT WE WORK ON ZCHLT GOT IT. NOW, OPEN SOURCE HAS BEEN A REALLY IMPORTANT FOCUS, IN YOUR APPROACH AND STRATEGY AROUND YOUR TECHNOLOGY DECISIONS. AND LOVE TO HEAR A BIT MORE ABOUT THAT BUT ALSO THE STEP YOU’VE TAKEN OF TAKEN YOUR TECHNOLOGY AND THEN TURNING AROUND AND OPEN SOURCING IT OUT AS WELL. SO WHERE DOES THAT STEM FROM AND HOW HAS IT BEEN WORKING? >>SO FROM AN OPEN SOURCE POINT EVER VIEW, REALLY, THE PROPOSITION AROUND OPEN SOURCE FOR ME IS REALLY VERY, VERY CLEAR, I MEAN, THERE’S THREE KEY THINGS. ONE, THE DISCIPLINE OF DEVELOPING OR ENGINEERING AGAINST A PUBLIC REPO TO WHICH YOU THEN HAVE TO COULD CONTRIBUTE YOURSELF AND FROM WHICH YOU THEN HAVE TO VALIDATE AND I A PROVE PULL REQUESTS, ETC. , REQUIRES YOU TO ESTABLISH A SET OF SOFTWARE PRACTICES THAT ARE A LOT MORE DISCIPLINED THAN IF WE WERE, FRANKLY, MARKING OUR OWN HOMEWORK INSIDE OUR OWN TEAM. AND THAT’S NOT IS A I SAY PEOPLE DON’T FOLLOW THEIR OWN PROCESSES INTERNLY. BUT BY CREATING A OPEN SOURCE MODEL IT REALLY MAKES SURE YOU DO. SO IT DRIVES GREAT DISCIPLINE. AND BY THE WAY, THAT GREAT DISCIPLINE WORKS NOT ONLY FOR THE TEAM AND THE OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITY, IT ALSO WORKS FOR THE TEAM AND THE TEAMS INSIDE THE ORGANIZATION, SCOTIA BANK, THAT WE ARE WORKING WITH AS THEY CONTRIBUTE TO OUR PRODUCTS AS WELL. SO IT ALSO DRIVES DISCIPLINE IN TERMS OF ANSWERING THE QUESTION, WELL, WHAT DO WE MEAN WHEN WE WANT — WHEN WE SAY THAT WE WANT OUR CUSTOMERS, OUR USERS. THE OTHER ENGINEERS AND THE OTHER PARTS OF THE ORGANIZATION TO BE CONTRIBUTING CODE BACK TO US. SO SOFTWARE DISCIPLINE IS A FUNDAMENTAL REASON. THE SECOND THING IS, YOU KNOW, FRANKLY, IF WE ARE TRYING TO ATTRACT THE BEST ENGINEERING TALENT IN THE WORLD, WHICH WE ARE, AND WE’RE HIRING, JUST SAYING, [ LAUGHTER ] >>IF ANY OF ARE YOU IN THE ROOM.>>BUT IF WE’RE TRYING TO DO THAT, WELL, SHOULD SHOULDN’T WE LOOK LIKE A SOFTWARE COMPANY? AND SOFTWARE COMPANIES TODAY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION BACK TO THE COMMUNITY, BACK TO THE ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. AND SO I THINK WE SHOULD DO THAT. AND THEN, THIRDLY, IF WE ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE COMMUNITY, WELL, IT STANDS TO REASON THAT NOBODY IS AS SMART AS ALL OF US. AND SO IF THAT IS THE CASE, WELL, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE THOUGHT WERE IMPORTANT, UH IS AS IN THE CASE OF ACCELERATOR, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE CAN GET YOU ALL TO MAKE IT BETTER. SO THE REAL FUNDAMENTAL IMPETUS AROUND ALL OPEN SOURCE IS IF WE HAVE ALL OF THE MINDS OF THE SOFTWARE UNIVERSE WORKING ON A THING, CHANCES ARE WE’RE GOING TO COME UP WITH A BETTER SOLUTION AND WE TRULY BELIEVE THAT. AND SO, SO YOU KNOW, BASED ON THAT VALUE PROPOSITION, THEN WE HAVE WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS PUT PROCESS IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CLOUD THAT WE RELEASE IS APPROPRIATELY SECURE AND THAT IT IS APPROPRIATELY MANAGED AND, OF COURSE, WE HAVE TO DO THAT. BUT, OF COURSE, YOU HAVE TO DO THAT ANYWAY. AND SO TO THE EXTENT THAT RELEASING OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE MEANS THAT OBVIOUSLY THAT THERE IS SOFTWARE THAT IS IN CODE FORM AVAILABLE ON A REPOSITORY IS NOT FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT TO THE KINDS OF CHECKS WE SHOULD BE DOING TO ENSURE THAT THE SOFTWARE THAT YOU’RE RELEASING, EVEN IF IT DOESN’T HAVE TO BE PUBLISHED IN CODE FORM, IS ALSO SECURE AND IS ALSO WRITTEN IN A WAY THAT DOESN’T EXPOSE SECURITY ISSUES, THINGS LIKE THAT. AND SO FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW, THERE’S A LOT OF PROCESS WORK THAT WE DO, THERE’S A LOT OF CONTROLS AND WE ENSURE THAT THE TEAM RELEASING A PARTICULAR PIECE, YOU KNOW, GETS A INDEPENDENT REVIEW FROM ANOTHER TEAM AND SO THERE’S SOME BASIC THINGS THAT WE’RE DOING TO TRY TO DRIVE QUALITY AS WELL AS SAFETY. BUT I THINK THAT YOU KNOW, SCOITAI’S, WE WANT TO BE A HIGH PERFORMING COMPANY AND BEING A HIGH PERFORMING COMPANY MEANS THAT WE HAVE TO BENCHMARK OURSELVES AGAINST THE BEST IN THE WORLD. AND IF YOU WANT TO BE A SOFTWARE COMPANY, WE SHOULD BE HOLDING OURSELVES TO A SOFTWARE COMPANY BAR.>>GOT IT.>>AND SO WE WANT OUR SOFTWARE IN THE SAME PLACES YOU WOULD FIND ANY OTHER LEADING SOFTWARE COMPANY SOFTWARE.>>ALL RIGHT. BUT I HAVE TO, ASK I MEAN, DID IT TAKE — WHAT DID IT TAKE, I SHOULD SAY, TO GET MAYBE YOUR SECURITY TEAM AND YOUR COMPLIANCE TEAM COMFORTABLE WITH THE IDEA THAT YOU’RE GOING TO OPEN SOURCE YOUR CODE AND THEN YOU’RE GOING TO TAKE IT BACK IN AND RUN IT AND KIND OF WORK IT IN THAT WAY, I WAS THINKING THE COMBINATION OF A HIGHLY REGULATED AND A MORE CONSERVATIVE, FROM A GOVERNMENTAL PERSPECTIVE, A LOT MORE POLICIES IN CANADA THAN OTHER PLACES AND SO YOU NAVIGATED THOSE THINGS, SO INTERESTED, WHAT DID THAT JOURNEY LOOK LIKE? YOU REALLY DON’T KNOW?>>YEAH.>>WOW, WHAT A PAYWAY TO FIND OUT. YES, IF YOU’RE WATCHING THE VIDEO. TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, AND I’M NOT BEING GLIB, THE SAME APPROACH WE USED FOR I THINK DRIVING ADOPTION OF THE PLATFORM WAS THE SAME APPROACH WE USED WITH OPEN SOURCE, AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS, BUILDING A LITTLE WIT OF CREDIBILITY, BUILDING A LITTLE BIT OF CREDIBILITY AND INCLUSION OF PEOPLE THE CONTROL FUNCTIONS WHETHER IT’S SECURITY, PRIVACY, REGULATION, WHATEVER, BUILDING THAT RELATIONSHIP,ING MR. THE TRANSPARENCY OF WHAT WE DO, BECAUSE THEY ARE PART OF THE TEAM WITH US, THAT WAS EXTREMELY HELPFUL IN JUST DEVELOPING UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHY THE STRATEGY WAS A GOOD IDEA. AND HOW WE COULD HONESTLY LEARN FROM EACH OTHER AS TO HOW TO MAKE THIS SAFE. THE REALITY IS, WE DON’T WANT TO TAKE CRETE A PROCESS THAT PUTS OUR BANK OR OUR CUSTOMER DATA AT RISK.>>GOOD ZCHLT WE WANT TO CREATE A SAFE AND SECURE SO WE VALUE COMMENTS, AND HOW THAT BECOMES PRODUCTIVE IS BY ENSURING THAT WE DON’T HAVE THE THEM AND US SITUATION. SO YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ALL OF THESE COLLEAGUES INVOLVED, LITERALLY THEY SIT IN THE PLATO OFFICES, THEY ARE PART OF THE TEAM. AND SO VNGS HAVING THESE CONTRIBUTIONS RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING WE’RE ONE TEAM TRYING TO MOVE TOWARDS ONE OUTCOME, HAS I THINK BEEN EFFECTIVE. IT IS JUST CREATING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS UP-FRONT AND HONESTLY, I THINK IT’S TRANSPARENCY. THE JUST MAKING IT VERY, VERY CLEAR THAT THIS IS WHAT WE’RE DOING, THIS IS WHAT WE’RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE, WE WILL SHARE OPENLY, WHATEVER WE’RE UP TO, BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY WANT TO BE SAFE.>>GOT IT.>>WE DON’T WANT TO PUT THE BANK AT RELATIONSHIPS THINK.>>MM-HMM.>>AND I THINK JUST TAKING THAT AUTHENTIC APPROACH IS HELPFUL AND IT PRODUCES A GOOD OUTCOME.>>GOT IT. AND I DO THINK THAT, I HEAR THAT A LOT, PARTICULARLY FROM MORE REGULATED CUSTOMERS THAT HOW DO THEY GET THAT PARTNERSHIP, THAT TRUST, THAT APPEARNESS A. SO AGAIN, IN SIMILAR ANXIOUS SITUATIONS YOU EMBED IT HAD IN PART OF THE TEAM AND HAD A INCREDIBLE INCLUSIVE APPROACH THROUGH THE WHOLE JOURNEY ZCHLT YEAH, I MEAN, WE TALK ABOUT DEV OPS, AND WE TALK ABOUT THERE’S DEV AND THERE’S OOPS AND WE NEED TO BRING THEM TOGETHER. WE HAVE DEV SEC OOPS IS A NEW THING, A TERM I HATE, BY THE WAY, BECAUSE WHERE DOES IT END? DO YOU HAVE MARKETING MARKUPS >>SO THE POINT IS MINIMIZE FEEDBACK LOOPS.>>OKAY. >>RIGHT? SO YOU SHOULD DO THAT WITH YOUR CONTROL FUNCTIONS THERE.>>GOT IT.>>I MEAN, I HONESTLY THINK IT’S THAT — IT’S THAT SIMPLE, BECAUSE THIS, AGAIN, THIS CREATION YOU DON’T TRANSFORM YOUR SECURITY ORGANIZATION OR A REGULATION FUNCTION OR YOURSELF BY TRYING TO I AVOID THE PROBLEM. SO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS WE HAVE TO SIT COUNSEL AND TOGETHER AND SAY, WHY THIS IS WHY WEFRNG THIS A GOOD IDEA, THIS IS WHY IT’S GOOD FOR OUR CUSTOMERS, THIS IS WHY IT’S GOOD FOR OUR BANK AND THIS IS WHAT WE NODE TO DO IN ORDER TO MAKE IT SAFE. AND IF ANYONE IS CLEAR THAT THEY’RE ALL ON THAT SAME PAGE, I MEAN, SOMETIMES THERE’S SOME DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS WHERE YOU REALLY HAVE TO TRY AND GET TO THE DETAIL OF ACTUALLY WHAT THE RISK IS OR WHAT THE SOLUTION IS. >>SURE ZCHLT AND I THINK THIS PRODUCES BETTER ENGINEERING.>>GOT IT. >>OF COURSE IT HELPS IF YOU HAVE GREAT EBB GIN NEARS.>>IT DOES. DELIVER AND GET PEOPLE’S TRUST WHEN YOU DO THAT.>>WHICH WE DO.>>THANK GOODNESS AND I KNOW YOU’RE HIRING. [ LAUGHTER ] >>SO THE LAST QUESTION BEFORE WE OPEN IT OATH TO THE ROOM SO THINK ABOUT SOME QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT WANT TO ASK ACTION WOULD I HAVE GOOD TIME FOR THAT, SO WHERE IS NEXT FROM THE CLOUD PLATFORM YOU BUILT, THE PLATO AND KIND OF YOUR ADOPTION OF CLOUD AND A DOUBLE OF WAY OF WHAT DO YOU SEE YOURSELF BUILDING IN THAT PLATY FORM LAYER VERSUS EXPECTING AND LOOKING TO PUBLIC CLOUD PROVIDERS TO DO AND THEN KIND OF HOW DO YOU THINK FROM A ON PREMISE TO CLOUD, THAT COMBINATION OF WHERE YOU’RE LEANING AS WELL?>>YEAH, I THINK THAT THE, OUR FOCUS GOING FORWARD IS CERTAINLY GOING TO BE INCREASINGLY ON THE MIGRATION OF SO-CALLED HERITAGE OR LEK LEGACY TECHNOLOGIES. SO YOU KNOW, THE THINGS FOR COBALT AND RPG IS IMPORTANT. WE WANT TO, AGAIN, TRANSFORM THE CODE BASE OF THE BANK. YOU DON’T DO THAT BY NOT TOUCHING IT. SO WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THESE, WITH — SO THERE WILL BE A LOT OF FOCUS ON THAT. THERE’S CERTAINLY A GREAT DEAL OF FOCUS ON CREATING A REAL-TIME STREAMING EVENT LAYER. WHICH WE’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT RECENTLY AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT THAT ALLOWS US TO DO IS IT ALLOWS US TO CREATE AN ISOLATION LAYER BETWEEN ALL OF THE CONSUMING APPLICATIONS IN THE APIS AND ALL OF OUR BACK END TECHNOLOGY. AT ONE IDENTICAL TIME POINT. SO EVERYTHING IS AT A PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME WHICH, OF COURSE WHEN, YOU’RE DEALING WITH VERY OLD SYSTEMS, GETTING SYSTEMS TO BE A DEGREE ON THE TIME STAMP OF A PARTICULAR TRANSACTION, IS ACTUALLY A INTERESTING ENGINEERING CHALLENGE IN ITSELF. SO, YOU KNOW, SOME APPLICATIONS WILL, YOU KNOW, RUN IN BATCH AND NOT IN REAL-TIME AND SOME APPLICATIONS WILL, YOU KNOW, BE UPDATED EVERY WEEK. AND SO IN REAL-TIME LAYER I THINK IS AN IMPORTANT THING THAT WE’RE WORKING ON, THE EVENT LAYER. AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE ARE MOVING TOWARDS IS REALLY BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND HOW WE USE THESE NEW TECHNOLOGIES, THESE NEW CAPABILITIES WITHIN THE TEAMS THAT HAVE WORKED ON THEM TO START APPLYING THAT TO THE HERITAGE AND LEGACY TECHNOLOGY MIGRATION PROBLEM.>>I SEE, OKAY ZCHLT AND THAT BEGINS TO GET IN SO SOME VERY INTERESTING ENGINEERING AROUND THE DATA. SO MAPPING THE LEGACY DATA TO A COMMON ENTERPRISE DATA MODEL, ENSURING THAT THAT ENTERPRISE DATA MODEL IS WELL DEFINED IN TEMPLES OF ROLL-BASED ACCESS, SECURITY, THINGS LIKE THAT, TAGGING FOR CONSENT, PRIVACY, ALL OF THOSE KINDS OF QUESTIONS, BUT THEN ALSO ENSURING THAT THE ENTERPRISE DATA MODEL THAT WE THEN ARE CREATING IS ABLE TO BE USED IN POWERFUL NEW WAYS FOR ANALYTICS.>>GOT IT. ON THE CLOUD. BUT YOU KNOW, THE TRICK IS TO UNDERSTAND YOU HA YOU BREAK UP THESE APPLICATIONS AND REFACTOR THESE APPLICATIONS IN SOUL SMALL PIECES. AND SO YOU KNOW, I OFTEN SAY TO ENGINEERS WHO ARE INTERVIEWING WITH US, YOU KNOW, IT’S FINE IF YOU WORK AT A ENGINEERING COMPANY, AT A INTERNET COMPANY, AND YOU KNOW, YOU WORK ON ALL OF THIS COOL NEW INTERNET TECHNOLOGY. IT’S GREAT. THERE’S A GOOD ENGINEERING CHALLENGE THERE. BUT IF YOU WANT A REALLY ENGINEERING CHALLENGE WE HAVE SOME REAL ENGINEERING CHALLENGES. RIGHT? I MEAN, SOME REALLY INTERESTING IDEAS ABOUT HOW DO WE GET DATA FROM, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT IS MAPPED, UNDERSTOOD, CONTROLLED, SECURED, UP TO THE CLOTH CLOUD AND THEN CONSUMED IN A MULTIPLE NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS. WHETHER IT BE FOR ANALYTICS, WHETHER IT BE IN REAL-TIME FOR AN APPLICATION, MOBILE APPLICATION, OR IT MAY ALSO BE BY ANOTHER HERITAGE APPLICATION. CAMPED AUDIO CUT OUT]>>HOWEVER, WE HAD TO SHOW THE VALUE 234 EACH ORGANIZATION. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF WITH TOP DOWN MANDATES IS TOP DOWN MANDATES GET YOU A TRY. RIGHT? MEANING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE FOG THE MANDATE HAVE TO GIVE YOU A TRY. BUT IN ORDER TO GET A SECOND ONE, YOU NEED TO SUCCEED THE FIRST TIME. SO SO EVEN ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE ME MAN INDICATE, HAVE YOU TO DO CLOUD, STILL NEED TO HAVE TEAMS THAT ARE EXECUTING AND REALLY DELIVERING ON THE VALUE. ARCHED SO, YOU KNOW, OFTEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT WELL WE NEED TOP DOWN MANDATE AND THEN WE NEED THE SUPPORT AND THE ORGANIZATION. I HONESTLY THINK THAT IT’S PART OF THE SAME CONTINUUM. AND I’VE SEEN TRANSFORMATION APPROACHES AT SCOTIA WE’VE BEEN VERY LUCKY BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS TOP DOWN MANDATE BUT I HAVE SEEN TRANSFORMATIONAL APPROACHES WORK, WHERE YOU HAVE A SMALL TEAM, ATHEY PROVED IT IN ONE AREA, ONE SMALL ORGANIZATION, SHOWED IT TO EVERYBODY, COMMUNICATE IT HAD TO EVERYONE, AND SAID, WHO WANTS TO DO ANOTHER ONE? ONE OR TWO TEAMS PUT THEIR HANDS UP AND SAID YES, I’D LIKE TO DO ONE. AROUND PRESENT TEA SOON THAT TURNED IN TO A TOP LINEMAN DATE WHERE SENIOR EXECUTIVES THEN SAID, WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE WE SHOULD COULD THAT. AND SO, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE NEED TO BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL OF AS TECHNOLOGIES AND AS LEADERS OF CHANGE BE CAREFUL OF THE WORD MANDATE. BECAUSE IN SOME CASES I THINK IT CAN GIVE US A EXCUSE FOR NOT TAKING CONTROL OF DRIVING THE CHANGE OURSELVES AND NOT SHOWING THE BENEFITS THAT WE BELIEVE IN. I HONESTLY THINK IF YOU HAVE A CLOUD PROGRAM OR A CLOUD TEAM, AND YOU SHOW SOME REAL BUSINESS BENEFITS, I WOULD AMAZED IF YOU DIDN’T GET AT LEAST ONE OR TWO CUSTOMERS NEXT IN QUEUE SAYING I’LL GIVE IT A SHOT. DOES THAT HELP?>>SURE.>>I HAVE ONE QUESTION, YOU HAD MENTIONED ABOUT GNAWED SFLUD >>WHAT KIND OF ECOSYSTEMS ARE YOU REFERRING TO?>>YOU MENTIONED A MULTISYSTEM SYSTEM CAN HE LAX I THINK SO ACTION DEV OPS, YOU TALKED ABOUT APPLICATION DELIVERING FASTER, GIVING VALUE TO THE CUSTOMERS, MINIMIZING THE FEEDBACK LOOP, ANYTHING ELSE THAT THE ECOSYSTEM, OTHER THAN COLLABORATION?>>OH, I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN. CERTAINLY WE WILL — WE’RE WORKING, LET ME THINK ABOUT HOW TO ANSWER THIS. THE HISTORICALLY, HISTORICALLY, THERE’S BEEN TWO GROUPS, WELL, THERE’S BEEN MANY GROUPS, BUT LET’S PRETEND THERE’S TWO, OKAY, FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS EXAMPLE. THERE’S TWO GROUPS, GOT THE APPLICATION DEVELOPERS OVER HERE, AND YOU HAVE DATA PEOPLE OVER HERE. AND EVEN IF YOU HAVE A LOOK ORGANIZATIONALLY LOOK AT THE TOOLS ARCHED LOOK AT THE TECHNIQUES AND LOOK AT THE BLOGS, HOW MUCH DATA CONVERSATION IS HELPING IN THE DEV-OPS WORLD? I MEAN, IT’S PRETTY THIN. AND SO THERE’S ALWAYS BEEN THE SITUATION, WE’VE GOT APPLICATION DEVELOPMENT OVER OVER HERE AND THEN WE’VE GOT THE DATA PEOPLE OVER HERE. AND SO A MAJOR FOCUS FOR US AND WE HAVE A FANTASTIC CHIEF DATA OFFICER AT SCOTIA BANK AND A REAL FOCUS ON GETTING OUR DATA WELL UNDERSTOOD AND EMBRACING ALL OF THE VALUE THAT WE CAN GET FROM THE DATA AND IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WE NEED TO START TREATING DATA LIKE THE FIRST CLASS CITIZEN THAT IT IS. AND SO WHAT WE WANT IS WE WANT TO DEVELOP AN ECOSYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO SEARCH FOR AND UNDERSTAND DATA IN THE WAY YOU WOULD A API. SO A DATA ECOSYSTEM IS MOSSIVELY PARCH. AN HONESTLY, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND AN API ANY WAY? I MEAN, IF WE DO THIS JOB PROPERLY, WE SHOULD HAVE SEMANTIC CONSISTENCY FROM THE FRONT TO THE BACK.>>SPOON SPOON >>YES, ABSOLUTELY, YES. ABSOLUTELY. THAT’S A GOOD POINT.>>GOOD PLUG. NICE JOB.>>OPEN DATA. >>Z ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?>>WE’VE BEEN GOING DOWN THE SAME JOURNEY AS WELL AND AS WE GET FURTHER UP OUR STOCK INTO YOUR PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENT, WE’RE MOVING MORE TO MORE HANDS OFF ENVIRONMENT, SO DEVELOPERS ARE TOTALLY ON BOARD, ENGINEERS ARE TOTALLY ON BOARD, THE OOPS GUYS ARE GOING IN TO AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE GO PRODUCTION IS READ ONLY. WE’RE NOT GIVING YOU YOUR WRITE ACCESS BECAUSE THE MOMENT I GIVE YOU WRITE, YOU CAN UNDO WHAT I’VE DONE. AND HOW DID — I’M ASSUMING YOU HAVE THIS — YOU WOULD HAVE GONE THROUGH THE SAME CHALLENGES OF THE OOPS GUYS WHERE YOU ARE USED TO POPPING ON A BOX, FIGURING IT OUT, MAKE A QUICK CHANGE, GO AWAY, HE GOES ON VACATION, TWO WEEKS LATER, THE BOX GOES DOWN BECAUSE NOBODY REMEMBERS WHAT HENRY DID ON THE BOX.>>YEAH, FOR SURE. FIRSTLY, AND OBVIOUSLY, OBVIOUSLY YOU KNOW THIS, I MEAN, IT IS INSECURE. SO IT IS A SECURITY PROBLEM ALLOWING THAT TO HAPPEN IN ANY CASE. AND SO FROM AN ORGANIZATIONAL POSITIONING POINT OF VIEW, IT’S IMPORTANT TO OBVIOUSLY COMMUNICATE THEIR MESSAGE. BUT FROM A CHANGE PERSPECTIVE FROM UNDERSTANDING HOW TO GET THE OFFICE ORGANIZATION TO UNDERSTAND THE CHANGES ROLE, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME OOPS PEOPLE WHO HAVE UNDERSTOOD AND WHO HAVE PARTICIPATED IN THIS NEW MODEL. BECAUSE, AGAIN, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT CAVB OOPS, AND WE SAY, WELL, WE’RE GOING TO ESSENTIAL YOU KNOW, PUT THE TWO TOGETHER, IT DOESN’T MEAN NO OOPS. IN SOME ORGANIZATIONS IT MAY MEAN NO OOPS AND THAT’S A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION, BUT WHAT IT MEANS IS WE STILL NEED THE UPPER LYING CAPABILITIES, THE UNDERLYING PRACTICES AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF PEOPLE WHO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE OPERATING ENVIRONMENTS. NOW, IF YOU CONSIDER SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE WHEN WE ARE DOING CONTINUOUS INTEGRATION OR CONTINUOUS DELIVERY AND WE ARE HOPEFULLY PUSHING NIGHTLY BUILDS, THE SO-CALLED OOPS PEOPLE HAVE TO BE INVOLVED. AND SO THE INVOLVEMENT IN THAT HIGH VELOCITY PROCESS, THE ABILITY FOR AN OPERATIONINGs PERSON TO LITERALLY SEE THE VELOCITY OF CHANGE THAT’S GOING THROUGH AND HOW THEY ARE WORKING ON DRIVING THAT APPLICATION CONTINUALLY, PARTICULARLY IF YOU’RE BEGINNING TO GET FEEDBACK FROM THE APPLICATION THAT THE CHANGES THAT YOU’VE DRIVEN ARE DRIVING REAL CUSTOMER VALUE, WHICH, IF YOU LISTEN TO RYAN’S PRESENTATION TOMORROW WE’LL TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT, I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN OOPS PERSON SAY OH, THANKS FOR THIS EXPERIENCE, I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE OLD WAY. I’VE HONESTLY NEVER SEEN IT HAPPEN. SO I THINK, AGAIN, THE APPROACH IS INSTEAD OF OF TRYING TO CHANGE OOPS AS AN ENTIRE DISCIPLINE, YOU NEED TO TRY AND IDENTIFY SOME PEOPLE WHO CAN BE PART OF THESE INITIAL PROJECTS AND BEING PART OF THESE INITIAL PROJECTS HELPS YOU BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND AND BE ABLE TOKES PRESS IN TERMS THAT ARE MEANINGFUL FOR OPERATIONS PEOPLE TO OPERATIONS PEOPLE TO THE OTHER OPERATIONS PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE KIND OF THAT I THINK WE NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT.>>SO YEAH, SO WE HAVE A SMALL OOPS, CLOUD OOPS, AND WE HAVE — >>BIG OOPS.>>LEGACY OOPS.>>RIGHT.>>AND WE’RE JUST OVER THAT INFLECTION OF WE’VE GOT OUR FIRST BIG APP AND I’VE GOT SIX APPS IN THE COULD YOU RIGHT NOW, LIKE WE KNOW THE FLOOD IS COME.>>MM-HMM.>>AND MY WORRY IS, WILL THAT SMALL OOPS BE ABLE TO CHANGE LEGACY — THAT MASSIVE LEGACY OOPS ORGANIZATION?>>YEAH ZCHLT IS OUR OWN MET IX, OWN PROFIT — >>HOW MUCH AUTOMATION DO YOU USE IN THE LEGACY OOPS WORLD?>>NOT THAT MUCH ZCHLT RIGHT. SO NOT MANY PEOPLE LIKE DOING EXACTLY THE SAME TASK 500 TIMES A MONTH.>>SURPRISINGLY OUR OOPS GUYS DO.>>RIGHT. [ LAUGHTER ] >>AND OUR OPS IS A THIRD PARTY COMPANY, RIGHT SO, THERE’S THIS FINANCIAL METRICS.>>OKAY ZCHLT EVERY TIME THEY DO SOMETHING ZCHLT RIGHT.>>YEAH, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY NOT KNOWING THE — OBVIOUSLY NOT KNOWING THE DETAILS, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT, IN GENERAL, YOU’RE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO SHOW TO YOUR BUSINESS THE VALUE OF AUTOMATION IF IS A THIRD PARTY ORGANIZATION, THERE’S AN ECONOMIC VALUE THAT COMES FROM THAT. IT FE THERE’S NOT A THIRD PARTY ORGANIZATION, THERE’S STILL ECONOMIC VALUE THAT COMES FROM REDUCING THE NUMBER OF STEPS THAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE MANUALLY AND THE TIME THAT IT TAKES, AND THE REDUCTION THAT YOU GET THROUGH AUTOMATION, I THINK IS VERY REAL AND IT’S AN EASY BENEFIT TO SHOW. BUT IN MY EXPERIENCE, OPERATIONS PEOPLE WOULD RATHER BE SPENDING THEIR TIME ON INTERESTING OPERATIONS PROBLEMS RICKS YOU KNOW, WORKING ON HOW TO, YOU KNOW, SCALE SOMETHING BETTER, HOW TO TUNE IT BETTER, RATHER THAN HAVING TO WRITE BASIC SCRIPTS TO JUST RELOAD ENVIRONMENTS. YOU KNOW, OR RESET DATABASES. AND SO CERTAINLY FROM AN INTERNAL POINT OF VIEW, THE SHARING OF THE — OF AUTOMATION PRACTICES, THE SHARING OF THE TOOLS THAT YOU MIGHT WRITE IN YOUR CLOUD O OS ORGANIZATION TO AUTOMATE THE BUILDING AND PROVISIONING OF ENVIRONMENTS, I THINK THAT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO YOUR SO-CALLED LEGACY OPS ORGANIZATION. NOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE’S A THIRD PARTY DYNAMIC AND I DON’T KNOW HOW THAT WORKS. IT ISSAGE INTERESTING CHOICE TO COMPLETELY OUTSOURCE OPERATIONS.>>HI, JUSTIN ZCHLT HI. HOW BIG IS THE ENVIRONMENT, HOW MUCH WORKLOADS DO YOU HAVE IN >>SO WITH HAVE MOBILE AND INTERNET BANKS RUNGING AT YOU OF OUR GLOBAL MARKETS, COLUMBIA, CHILE AND CANADA, WE ALSO HAVE A NOTIFICATIONS PLATFORM WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING THE CUSTOMERS IN CANADA NOTIFICATION OF ALL CHANGES ON THEIR ACCOUNTS. SO WHAT I SPEND ON MY CREDIT CARD, I GET AN E-MAIL OR SMS OR SOMETHING TO INDICATE THAT A TRANSACTION HAS OCCURRED. SO ALL OF THESE ESSENTIALLY ON THE PLATFORM. AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE STANDARDIZED CUSTOMER AUTHENTICATION WHICH, IS OF COURSE, USED IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT CONTEXTS AND THAT’S ALSO PART OF THE PLATFORM. SO WE ARE FAIRLY PERVASIVE. WE STILL HAVE SOME MORE EDGES TO LOOK AT.>>ARE THOSE DRECK OKAY V TIMINGS OR?>>>I WOULD SAY THE TEAMS THAT WE WORK WITH WE HAVE ATTEMPTED TO MAKE A FULL STACK AS POSSIBLE. COMBI DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS ARE IN DIFFERENT PLACES. THERE’S SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT CHALLENGES, AND DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES. PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU GET TO SOME OF THE CORE BANKING PLATFORMS. THAT ARE COMPLICATED AND THEY HAVE COMPLEX REGRESSION TESTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IT CAN BECOME DIFFICULT DIFFERENT. SO IT IS DIFFICULT TO TAKE A TEXTBOOK APPROACH. BUT BY AND LARGE WHEN, WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED THE PLATFORM, WE HAVE ATTEMPTED TO IMMRE NOT ONLY THE TECHNOLOGY AND THE PRACTICES BUT SOME OF THE ORGANIZATIONAL THINKING THAT GOES WITH IT.>>SO HOW DOES — ASK T IS NOT COCKY CUTTER IS WHAT I’M SAYING ZCHLT SO HOW DOES IT BETWEEN, WHAT CHANGED THERE, BECAUSE I’M WORKING AT THE BANK IN THE OLD SCHOOL WORLD, SLOW, AND YOU’RE AT THE CHANGE.>>YEP ZCHLT AND THAT DOESN’T WORK IN THE WORLD BECAUSE THEN YOU’RE SLOW.>>YEP.>>I’M VERY CURIOUS, WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM CHANGING THAT GOVERNANCE IN RELATION TO THE PLATFORM AND THE DEV-OPS TEAM AND.>>A COUPLE OF THINGS, FIRST OF ALL, BEING VERY FOCUSSED ON AUTOMATED TESTING IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL. NE ORDER TO ENABLE CHANGE. SO THAT’S A PRETTY OBVIOUS ONE. HOWEVER, AND I THINK I MENTIONED IT EARLIER, IF YOU TAKE THE EXISTING OPERATIONAL PROCESS, THAT REQUIRED IN ORDER FOR YOU TO MANAGE CHANGE, THE CHANGE MANAGEMENT PROCESS, AND THEM YOU THINK FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE STEPS, IT HAS CHECKLISTS AND GOODNESS KNOWS WHAT ALL THE WAY THROUGHOUT, AND YOU NEED A DEGREE IN GRAPH THEORY TO LIKE TRACE YOUR WAY THROUGH IT, YEP, I FEEL YOU, SO IF YOU TAKE THAT AND YOU THEN THINK, OKAY, HOW CAN WE AUTOMATE EVERY FORM, RIGHT, YOU’VE MISUNDERSTOOD THE PROBLEM, RIGHT? AND SO WHAT WE DID WAS WE TRIED TO UNDERSTAND, WELL, WHAT ARE THE ACTUAL CONTROL OBJECTIVES? >>WHAT ARE THE RISKS YOUR TRYING TO — >>EXACTLY ZCHLT SO WHAT ARE THE RISKS THAT WE’RE TRYING TO MANAGE. WHAT ARE THE AREAS OF CONTROL THAT WE NEED 20 UNDERSTAND THAT WE NEED AND THEN WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE IN THIS WORLD. NOW IT TURNS OUT, WHAT I SAID EARLIER, YOU NEED TO CHANGE HOW YOUR ORGANIZATION FUNCTIONS SOMETIMES IN ORDER TO HE IS EXPLOIT THE CAPABILITIES OF TECHNOLOGY, >>MINDSET ZCHLT RIGHT. SO GIVE THAN WE NOW HAVE SOME CAPABILITIES OF TECHNOLOGY AROUND AUTOMATION, AROUND SOME OF THE AUTOMATED TESTING, THE CONTINUOUS INTEGRATION, ALL OF THOSE KIND OF THINGS, BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS, HOW DOES IT ENABLE US TO MEET THOSE CONTROL OBJECTIVES IN A WAY THAT WHEN THIS PROCESS WAS FIRST WRITTEN JUST WASN’T POSSIBLE? AND AGAIN, IF WE ARE, IF YOU INVOLVING YOUR CONTROL FUNCTIONS EARLY IN THE PROCESS, THEY WANT YOU TO BE SAFE. YOU WANT TO BE SAFE. YOU WANT TO BE CONSISTENT AND THEY WANT YOU TO BE CONSISTENT BUT OFTEN I THINK THE MISTAKE THAT ORGANIZATIONS MAKE IS IT TURNS INTO THIS OH, HOLD ON WE HAVE THIS NEW THING AND OBVIOUSLY IT’S BETTER, AND THIS WHOLE ALT THING IS JUST OBVIOUSLY BAD, AND SO THIS THING NEEDS TO REPLACE THIS THING. AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT DOESN’T MEAN ANYTHING. BECAUSE THE REALITY IS, FOR YOUR ORGANIZATION, THIS THING IS PROBABLY NECESSARY. THE LARGE PART OF YOUR ORGANIZATION THAT YOU HAVEN’T GOTTEN TO CHANGING YET RICKS YOU CAN’T HAVE NOTHING. SO THEREFORE THE QUESTION IS, SO WHAT DOES THE NEXT STEP, AS YOU BEGIN TO ITERATE AND UNDERSTAND WHAT A BETTER CHANGE MANAGEMENT PROCESS LOOKS LIKE? WELL, IT’S PROBABLY IDENTIFYING A PART OF THE PSYCHIATRISTING PROCESS, JUST TRYING TO IMPROVE THAT. BECAUSE, AGAIN, WHEN WE TEND TO MAKE THIS THAT IT IS A UNLEAN APPROACH THAT WE TAKE SO WHEN WE DELIVER SOFTWARE WE TERMS LEAN AND SMALL BATCHES BUT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT CHANGE, WE FORGET AND THING RIGHT I WANT TO CHANGE THE ENTIRE OPERATIONS PROCESS AND NOTHING ELSE WILL DO. AND IT’S REALLY, IT’S DIFFICULT BECAUSE THE THIS THING HAS GROWN OVER LIKE 40 YEARS AND YOU KNOW, SO PICK AN AREA. ARCHED SO IN OUR CASE, I MINE, WE LITERALLY MANAGE TO, I MEAN, CUT IN HALF THE NUMBER OF STEPS IN THE ACTUAL CHANGE MANAGEMENT PROCESS ZCHLT LIKE [INAUDIBLE] >>YES. AND THEN A LARGE NUMBER OF THOSE THAT REMAINED WERE THEN AUTOMATED AND THAT WAS DONE WITH OUR OPERATIONS COLLEAGUES, WITH OUR SECURITIES COLLEAGUES, ETC. . SO IT CAN BE DONE. BUT, AGAIN — >>STEP BY STEP.>>PICK AN AREA OF THE OPERATIONS PROCESS, TRY AND AUTOMATE THAT, INVOLVE YOUR COLLEAGUES IN THAT PROCESS, TRACK THE VALUE THAT YOU GET. YOU KNOW, IF YOU FIND SOME OPERATIONS PEOPLE AND THEY TEND TELL YOU YOU KNOW WHAT, I USED TO SPEND HALF OF MY WEEK DOING THIS AND NOW I SPEND TWO HOURS.>>HUGE WIN ZCHLT MASSIVE WIN ZCHLT THANK YOU.>>WE HAVE THE LAST QUESTION BECAUSE I STILL HAVE ONE LAST BURNING QUESTION. SO WE’LL HAVE ONE FINAL QUESTION AND THEN I GET MINE ZCHLT OH. >>SO SORT OF A FINANCIAL SERVICES ORGANIZATIONS THAT WE WORK IN THE UK I MEAN, YOU ARE OFTEN TALKING MANY THOUSANDS OF DEVELOPERS, SO THE QUESTION WE ALWAYS GET ASKED IS, YOU KNOW, HOW YOU SCALING THESE INITIATIVES, ARE YOU ON-LINE LEARNING MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS, JUST CURIOUS AS TO WHAT DO YOU SEE IS THE RIGHT WAY TO SCALE THESE TRANSFORMATION INITIATIVES PARTICULARLY AT THE EDUCATION AND PERSONAL CHANGE GROWTH LEVEL.>>MM-HMM.>>YEAH, DON’T RUN A TRAINING COURSE. SO I MEAN, WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS I’M SURE MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS, SOME ORGANIZATIONS, PARTICULARLY WHEN STHR ADOPTING NEW PRACTICES OR TECHNOLOGIES, IT COULD BE AGILE, IT COULD BE SOME NEW TOOL, WHATEVER, THEY THINK, OKAY, WE’RE CLEATLY COMMITTED TO THIS, WE’RE GO AND TRAIN 3,000 PEOPLE. AND THEN THEY WONDER WHY THERE HASN’T BEEN WHOLESALE ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGE. AS IT TURNS OUT THE CLASSROOM IS NOT REALITY. AND SO IN SCALING, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT SCALING IS NOT A FUNCTION OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, KNOWING HOW TO LOG IN TO ASHER. RIGHT? OR HAVING PASSED 1078 CERTIFICATION. SO WHAT IS IS IT? IT’S ACTUAL EXPERIENCE WORKING ON A PROJECT. AND I HONESTLY THINK THAT’S THE ONLY WAY TO SCALE. YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT I OFTEN SAY IS DON’T WORRY ABOUT SCALE UNTIL IT’S A BE PRO. AND A LOT OF ORGANIZATION THAT IS SAY HOW DO WE SCALE THIS, BUT THEY HAVEN’T DONE A SINGLE PROJECT. SO YOU HAVEN’T DONE A SINGLE PROJECT BUT YOU’RE WORRYING ABOUT HOW TO SCALE IT TO 5,000 DEVELOPERS? THAT DOESN’T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO ME. SO YOU WILL HAVE A SCALE PROBLEM BE YOU WHEN YOU SUDDENLY HAVE, BECAUSE YOU’VE PROVEN YOUR PROPOSITION, YOU SUDDENLY HAVE SO MUCH MORE DEMAND THAN YOU HAVE SUPPLY. THAT’S WHEN YOU HAVE A SCALE PROBLEM. AND YOU KNOW WHAT, THAT’S A GREAT PLACE TO BE. RIGHT? AND WHEN YOU’RE IN THAT POSITION, IT BECOMES A QUESTION OF HOW YOU ENABLE THEM TO LEADING AN INFLUENCEING TEAMS THAT THEN START DOING THIS, RIGHT, AND SO IT IS THROUGH, YOU KNOW, MULTIFLYING. AND I THINK AS CHANGE LEADERS, I THINK THAT’S WHAT WE HAVE TO BE. WE HAVE TO BE MULTIPLIERS OF PEOPLE. SO THE TEN PEOPLE WHO STARTED ON THE FIRST PROJECT HE CAN, THE TEN PEOPLE, MAYBE HALF OF THEM WANT TO GO ON AND PERHAPS PLAY A LEADERSHIP ROLE, OR MORE OF A LEADER TYPE ROLE IN THE NEXT PROJECT, WELL, THOSE ARE FIVE MORE PROJECTS THAT YOU HAVE.>>THANK YOU.>>ARE THE WILL. HARDEST QUESTION ZCHLT OKAY. HIT ME.>>READY?>>YEAH.>>WHEN’S YOUR BIRTHDAY?>>OH. TOUGH ONE. MY BIRTHDAY WAS YESTERDAY.>>I HEARD ABOUT THIS. AND I HEARD YOU SPENT IT ON A AIRPLANE. I FELT LIKE WE COULD DO BETTER ZCHLT OH, MY GOODNESS. [ LAUGHTER ] PLAYS.>>HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU ZCHLT THANK YOU ZCHLT HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU, HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEER JUSTIN, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU. THAEFRNG YOU VERY MUCH.>>SO VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY. THANK YOU FOR SPENDING YOUR BIRTHDAY ON A AIRPLANE, COME TO I CAN NIGHT, SHARING YOUR WISDOM AND PERSPECTIVE, I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

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